observer Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Has it gone too far? Something happens, and it's always someone else's fault; and the first reaction is to sue. Listened to an ad on radio for a compen law firm: a guy working for a tyre company, claimed the full weight of a lorry landed on his back - what was he doing UNDER a lorry if he was working on the tyres? Surely the full weight of a lorry would have broken his back? And arn't you supposed to put stands under a jacked up vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 It's all Harold Walker's fault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Broken his back???? It would have killed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 not if it was a peter lorre the one that tickles me up is the guy who says he was given the wrong type of ladder. if that was the case why did he use it. watched a guy last week fitting a satellite dish over the road. first he drilled a hole in the wall and put a hook into it. he then set up his ladder and tied it back to the hook with a webbing strap. he then dons bicycle type helmet and gloves and then off he goes to start the job. it took him longer to get his gear set up than it did to fit the dish and cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 ..because if he hadn't and he had fell off, he would have got nothing because that drawn out health and safety routine would be documented as being part of the method statement for the works and documented in the risk assessment as being necessary. Go against anything in these two documents and the H&S bandits will have your guts for garters. I spend a lot of my time writing these documents for my lads to carry out works on a variety of sites and they can literally take longer to assess and document than some of the jobs take to complete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 That's exactly right Baz. On board ship now we have to fill in Permits to Work, backed by Risk Assessments, for most activities apart from getting out of bed in the morning and making breakfast (unless it involves the use of a microwave oven). As I said before, I blame Harold Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 One of my customers went on a course on Friday to enable him to lift PC's as part of his work. He is in his 30's, works in IT and has been shifting these things around as part of his job for over 12 years. As he put it; "a waste of money to tell me what I already know....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 ... so,are all these folk who get the compen, doing the elf and safety thing? If so; how are they still having accidents that are someone else's fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Just because an employer has trained someone on the safe way of doing something, provided and maintained the correct safety equipment, documented the correct procedure to be followed, and threatened disciplinary action against anyone found not to be following said procedure - this does not relieve them of liability for an accident in which an employee completely ignores all of the above and does something which displays so much stupidity that they probably should have been euthanased at birth. It remains the employers responsibilty to absolutely ensure that correct equipment and procedures are used/followed at all times. Short of employing someone with a clipboard to follow around each employee on a full time basis, god only knows how they're supposed to achieve this in the real world. Great, isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 health and safety advisor is one job that i would like. you get to tell people how to do things and here is the bonus. if you tell them and they follow your advice but are injured it is their fault. if they don't follow your advice and get injured it is their fault. at least that is how it was explained to me by a health and safety officer i knew. because he was an ADVISOR he only gave ADVICE on how to do a job safely. it was then up to the individual doing the job whether they acted on that advice or not. as it was advice there was little or no blame attached to the advisor. not sure if the rules have been changed on this as i have not seen the guy for a few years but would be interested to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I remember from my days on big sites as an electrician that the person responsible for your health and safety was YOU. "You are your own safety officer" was how one foreman put it to me when I first started; and that is how I always approached my work. The trouble with a lot of these "no win no fee" people is that the adverts are mainly on during daytime TV when the likes of the Jeremy Kyle show is on and they are aimed at doley chav scroungers who are of the mindset that they can claim for anything against anyone. The Council is obviously the prime target as they are responsible for maintaining footpatchs etc. and if young, unemployed Christiano can say he tripped over an uneven flagstone in the town centre, then that will be another couple of grand towards his fags and booze fund.... sad but probably true!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thought the elf & S Act placed an equal duty on the employee to observe said procedures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I deal with such claims all day and every day for last 20 yrs. Emplyer has to prove safe process in place - if they dont, they lose. However I have won my fair share of trials on such cases fro emplyers but have seen some horrific accidents were emplyers dont take even the basics right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 But the thing about the no win no fee guys is that they're well aware of the costs to a business of defending a case - both in terms of legal representation and of management time spend dealing with it. The burden of proof is also on the defendent in these cases, they have to PROVE that all of their responsibilies were carried out perfectly. Whereas the claimant only has to throw any doubt at all on the defendents assertions. As a result, liability insurers would much rather settle a case than fight it, almost regardless of how frivolous the claim is. I reckon the vast majority of successful claims would fail if they were to have been fairly tested in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Exactly right there Inky. And it seems that if you only claim a few thousand you are almost certain to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 One of my customers went on a course on Friday to enable him to lift PC's as part of his work. He is in his 30's, works in IT and has been shifting these things around as part of his job for over 12 years. As he put it; "a waste of money to tell me what I already know....." A bit like NVQ's then!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 they dont pay willy nilly but at the same time if the emplyer is reckless, they know they will lose so they do pay out early in such cases. Employers liability is compuslosry so if an accident occurs, the insurers shoudl investigate. As i have said I win a fair few of such cases and the courts are not as blinkered as you think. As for a compo culture in general, doesnt exist and cases are going down each year. Also from next year (april) we get a stremlined system for car accidents worth under ?10k. This no doubt will be considered in years to come for other cases if its as success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ah, but "no win, no fee" parasites also go after individuals. An elderly friend of my Mum's was driven to tranx when she was harassed over a delivery man who said he slipped on her step. He wanted ?20K to pay for a knee op in a BUPA hospital. His argument was that it was the nearest place he could get help. He drove himself there immediately after suffering this terrible injury. As opposed to using his mobile to call an ambulance. When she told us, I replied on her behalf that as she had no money, she was happy to go to court, and if found liable, happy to agree a reasonable weekly sum from her basic state pension..... funnily enough, they decided not to proceed, but she had already been absolutely terrorised by their letters and phone calls for months. I know who I think should be in the dock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Surprised they didn't try and claim off the property insurance rather than an individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 To see just how far the no win no fee ambulance chasers will go; go to Warrington Hospitals A&E department and look over from the front to the backs of the properties on Lovely Lane. There is a massive big "have you had an accident" poster on the back of the building, facing A&E..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Surprised they didn't try and claim off the property insurance rather than an individual. They can't. Only the policy holder can make an insurance claim, but they hassled her to do so. The insurance company then told her she wasn't covered for the steps outside the house, for claims that she was negligent outside the property or for legal costs. As the case was such a load of absolute rubbish in the first place, and I was really annoyed, I just went for the throat, so I don't know whether she was actually covered or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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