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We're all guilty!!

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And PS Paul - I see nothing to indicate fury in any of my posts and I have no idea what you perceive as "my own way" either. This is an open discussion about a public matter. I'm entitled to an opinion, even if it's not one you like, and vice versa. That's the point of a discussion forum. There's no need to "sense" what I'm feeling thank you - I think we all know I'm more than capable of expressing myself quite clearly.... :wink:

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I think it's probably all just another scam to extract money from the unsuspecting public! :roll:

Probably thought they'd get away with it as most parents are obviously concerned for their children's safety, and the murders of poor Holly and Jessica touched the nations hearts.

 

CRB checks are already in place for workers with children or vulnerable people.

I don't think voluntary workers would mind having the check done...so long as they weren't expected to pay for it.

I don't think it's unreasonable either to expect drivers to be checked for safety.

What is unreasonable is the exorbitant charges they want people to pay.

With all the technology they have today it could be done at the flick of a few buttons. So what's the ?64 quid for?

CRB checks have already turned into a nice little earner, I believe agency workers have to have one done for each agency/job. At ?64 quid per go, for people on low wages anyway this is nothing other than a blatant rip off.

I would fully support any projects which would genuinely improve safety and security, but I suspect this one to be more related to profit making.

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with a lot of jobs that require CRB checks you will find that the employer will pay the fee. not sure about the "enhanced" check though and wonder if it the same price as the "standard" check.

 

question. if i have to pay for a CRB check on myself to satisfy the terms of employment, do i get to see the results.

 

i ask because the tax office insist on referring to me as Anthony or Mr A xxxxxx. despite the fact that i was christened Tony and that is what is on my birth certificate.

 

that being the case what is to stop me being confused with somebody else. here is me with no criminal record (that i am aware of) and here is a local scally with the same surname and initial with a record longer than a politicians expense claim :wink:

so they do a check and lo and behold thay pull up the name and the wrong record. "Oh dear a right villain no job for him"

or the other way round "he seems to have no record, the bank job is yours here are the keys"

 

ok so a bit over the top but it could happen ( and probably has)

 

also if a job require me to have the check can i get a similar check on the employers to see if they have a record as i would not want to work for a known criminal (unless they were paying a good wedge) 8):twisted:

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Sid it's not just name based. I had to supply numerous documents (like passport), national insurance number etc for the couple of CRB's that I have to have for the voluntary work I do.

 

I don't think that you will be confused with anyone else and you get your certificate to keep.

 

Mind you with a name like Evil Sid that itself should raise some concerns.

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Hmmmm the only Geoffrey I can recall (apart from the Giraffe at Toys R Us) is the rather strange and camp looking bloke from Rainbow who used to wear jolly sweaters!! Be carefull with names Geoff.... they can be decieving!!

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I think it's probably all just another scam to extract money from the unsuspecting public! :roll:

Probably thought they'd get away with it as most parents are obviously concerned for their children's safety, and the murders of poor Holly and Jessica touched the nations hearts.

 

CRB checks are already in place for workers with children or vulnerable people.

I don't think voluntary workers would mind having the check done...so long as they weren't expected to pay for it.

I don't think it's unreasonable either to expect drivers to be checked for safety.

What is unreasonable is the exorbitant charges they want people to pay.

With all the technology they have today it could be done at the flick of a few buttons. So what's the ?64 quid for?

CRB checks have already turned into a nice little earner, I believe agency workers have to have one done for each agency/job. At ?64 quid per go, for people on low wages anyway this is nothing other than a blatant rip off.

I would fully support any projects which would genuinely improve safety and security, but I suspect this one to be more related to profit making.

 

As I read the terms, unpaid volunteers would not be asked to pay anything at all.

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While we're at it, any chance of screening for schizos and psychos while their at it - seems care in the community doesn't quite cut it for the community. :shock:

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Obs I agree with you, It never was going to work. The only thing it had going for it was it was cheaper than keeping the hospitals open.

 

And whats a few lives when saving money and keeping taxes down is at stake :!::evil:

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Vanessa George, who was convicted this week on child abuse charges, would have been passed the CRB checks as she was a nursery nurse. So much for the efficacy of that then :roll::roll:

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A CRB check can only reveal that a person has done something illegal at some time in the past - not what they're going to do in the future.

 

It doesn't even any reveal details of the offence to the prospective employer to allow them to decide for themselves whether a 20 odd year old conviction for, let's say, non-payment of poll tax contitutes a current threat to the children who may be in their care.

 

Sledgehammer to crack a nut.

 

Now there are calls for staff to be banned from having mobile phones with them in caring workplaces - just in case a worker takes some pictures of kids. How that would be enforced when the authorities can't even keep mobiles out of prisons defeats me. And I also wonder how many times a staff members mobile has been used to summon help when an emergency has arisen, thus allowing the staff member to stay with the kids rather than dash of to the office to use the landline phone.

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I have three voluntary jobs and I have had to have a CRB check for each organisation that I work for; they pay the ?64. I get a copy of the CRB check and the whole process costs me nothing.

 

My son works for the RFL. He has one for his development manager?s role at Blackpool Rugby League Club to cover his coaching duties just as he did for the Warrington Wolves Foundation during his primary link days. My daughter has one for her coaching and judging work for Gymnastics.

 

We just treat the process as an essential part of the job.

 

Inky you are correct these checks can't see into the future, the system is not a crystal ball nor can they identify any actions by anyone who hasn't been caught doing whatever they have been doing. But experience has shown me that the organisations not only request the CRB checks and monitor volunteers behaviour. If there are any doubts about any volunteer then processes kick in. Okay they don?t catch everyone but then how can they?

 

Such potential offenders won?t yet be on the system but at least there is a lot in place to protect the vulnerable members of our society.

 

I believe there is some scope for those who have committed offences that were minor and committed at a young age e.g. caught shop lifting. The offence will be highlighted in the CRB check and it will be up to the organisation to make a decision as to whether or not they take that person on as a volunteer. I'm not 100% certain about this.

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I have three voluntary jobs and I have had to have a CRB check for each organisation that I work for

 

Let me get this right. You apply for a job and the CRB check if you are ok and get paid ?64. You then apply for another job and you are checked again for another ?64. :shock: So I take it they don't keep records where they can say 'this chap has already been checked'? :roll::roll:

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I believe there is some scope for those who have committed offences that were minor and committed at a young age e.g. caught shop lifting. The offence will be highlighted in the CRB check and it will be up to the organisation to make a decision as to whether or not they take that person on as a volunteer. I'm not 100% certain about this.

 

A standard CRB check just results in a "pass" or "fail". The potential employer or voluntary group don't get any detail as to the nature of any previous conviction, or of how long ago it occurred. It's up to them to ask the applicant for details of the offence (if they still want them), and then to decide whether or not to believe the story they are then given. They would find it very difficult to be certain that they were then being told the whole truth.

 

Someone with both a serious, recent conviction and an older, minor one could - in theory - just declare the older one to a recruiter and provide evidence to show that it was a minor offence and a long time ago. That way, when the CRB check came back as a "fail" no-one would be surprised and in this way the recent, serious conviction could be concealed.

 

Similarly, someone interested in volunteering to help with a kids football team, youth organisation, or within a school, may not be comfortable admitting to having had a minor conviction many years ago when they were young and stupid. In this way, all sorts of voluntary groups are missing out on many enthusiastic and talented helpers - when they're already struggling to find enough adults to help out.

 

It's a hastily thrown together and very easily circumvented system which is actually doing more harm than good. I actually failed a CRB check carried out for the job I've just started. When I contacted the checking agency I was told they were showing me as having a criminal conviction dating back to July 1970. They wouldn't give me any further details but I can't help wondering what the offence was - since I was only born in June 1969 and will have been 13 months old at the time!!! Fortunately, I was able to get them to confirm the date of my "conviction" in writing and this, along with my birth certificate reduced my new manager to fits of hysterical giggles.

 

If the goal is child (and vulnerable adult) protection, then rather than a full CRB check for all convictions surely a check for just convictions on certain classes and severities of offence would serve that goal better.

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Hey Pete, just remember "baby face finlayson" in the Beano... he was only a baby but boy was he trouble..... :lol::lol:

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Ain't it nice to know that an organisation which administers such a key plank of the child protection strategy gets it so wrong!

 

Wonder if I could sue for compo? Hurt feelings, stress, potential loss of earnings - libel, even, since they put it in writing - we could easily be talking 6 figures here.

 

Seriously though, what if they'd erroneously claimed that I had a serious conviction more recently than that? I would almost certainly have lost out on my new job - after having resigned from my old one - and in a small industry where everyone knows pretty much everyone else I could easily have gained a stigma which would have been near impossible to get rid of.

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You all seem to forget where humans are involved there will be mistakes, why do you pick up on the mistakes when most of the time when they are doing a good job. No one is perfect :!::wink:

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My point is, that the current CRB system is massively over the top to serve the purpose of child protection.

 

If they only searched for serious or child related offences there would be far fewer false positives - and, in a smaller and more tightly controlled system, fewer false negatives as well.

 

The information generated would then actually mean something.

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Going off the News tonight; about the rise in child deaths in Birmingham and elsewhere, with the blame being loaded onto Social Services - wouldn't it be appropriate for ALL parents to have a CRB check? :?

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I have three voluntary jobs and I have had to have a CRB check for each organisation that I work for

 

Let me get this right. You apply for a job and the CRB check if you are ok and get paid ?64. You then apply for another job and you are checked again for another ?64. :shock: So I take it they don't keep records where they can say 'this chap has already been checked'? :roll::roll:

 

All I know is that each organisation has to do its own check at the moment so there is duplication.

 

I think the logic behind it is to catch anyone who offends and then moves on to another job using their original CRB check.

 

Maybe a benefit of the new system is to get rid of this duplication. Offences will be held on a central databse and a warning will be issued to any organisation that the offender has had a CRB clearance.

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Don't know whether Geoff can't read or just ignores posts that pose complex questions: more parents are now killing their kids - death is permanent, abuse can be gotten over - so perhaps we need to look at child protection in it's overall context? Maybe it's too extreme and draconian for modern sensitivities but: isn't there a case for taking kids into care and away from disfunctional parents? A bonus would be to break the cycle of Chav behaviour - give me a child of 7 etc. After all, the well off do it voluntary, by sending their kids to boarding school! :wink:

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