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Sha

Save our Heritage. BEWSEY OLD HALL!

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[The DCLG consulted this year on extending planning consents (which they were going to limit to major development) and after responses (including mine) they will now apply it to all developments.

 

So WHO did they actually consult then... was it an open consultation or just selective :roll:

Totally open - of course most of those who knew about the consultation would be involved in planning (i.e. planning professionals, including local authorities, or major developers with projects on hold during the recession). In the case of revising guidance on the heritage issues, there had already been earlier consultations, "stakeholder conferences", and other testing-the-water exercises. The consultations normally phrase a group of questions about "have we got this particular aspect right?" but anyone can say anything.

 

It's a few days late but feel free to send in comments!

 

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/consultationhistoricpps.pdf

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English Heritage don't actually seem to object to much these days :roll:

 

hmm, maybe were too far north to count in EPs priorities. Plus its another excuse for Time Team to do another dig.

 

Sorry, but this decision was inevitable. Apart from the Peace Centre idea nothing was seriously considered as an alternative. Noone was bothered, simple as that. Noone wept over the loss of Winwick hospital. No discussion took place over School Brow, or the building of Wetherspoons over the old Friary. And there was barely a squeak over the hangars at Burtonwood- so why should we have expected anything else?

 

A thought strikes me- would all these "historical" sites possibly be considered "Brownfield" sites? Because that means European subsidies...

 

There are only four or five historical sites in Warrington that seem to matter. The Academy, St Marys CHURCH, Walton Hall, the Barleymow Inn, and the Town Hall. That is because they are in-your-face properties- we all pass the Barleymow shopping,the Academy is a hotbed of local news, the Town Hall has a myriad of factors going for it,and St Marys Church is being touted as a cathedral (lol). The impression i get from Bewsey Old Hall is that it was in an "inconvenient position"- tricky to get to, and in later years, not pretty enough to warrant tourism development money being spent on it. it was never going to attract tourists like Walton Hall, and this town wasnt big enough for the both of them.

 

SO now the decision has been made- and people all of a sudden are complaining. I have to ask- how much is this caused by the fact that when the hall is redeveloped, itll be restricted to those living there? Well expect more of the same. I imagine the Cabinet Works is also going to be turned into flats for people working in Manchester...I mean Warrington based transitory workers....and I can see several other historic buildings going the same way like "Cromwells house" (by Sainsburys) and the Black Bear Inn on Latchford Road. The Osnath works also looks like a possible Urban Splash target too, if Manchester is a guide.

 

Hehehe- mind you, would the spectral "residents" of Bewsey Old Hall welcome the new flatmates....?

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Maybe they should have dismantled it and rebuilt it somewhere on the Walton Estate. You could have got the whole community involved with community service being served there for the naughty people and local volunteers clearing up afterwards!!Now that would have attracted media interest and guaranteed a good load of visitors to the revamped Walton Hall Estate!!

 

They moved the old acadamy all those years ago and then totally rebuilt the place and stuck a big extension on it so that was one building that may look old but is pretty much new in its interior

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as much as I am not keen on flats, how many years has it been empty and why then hasnt something been done earlier. Bit late to be crying foul now.

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Robot,

The Black Bear has been refurbished inside and is now owned by an Electrical Company from Manchester Road. They have put the large Black Bear sign up, and it still looks very similar to how it was.

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I used to love the old building near to Bank Quay which had "GARTONS" on the roof in big white letters..... because backwards it used to spell "SNOTRAG".... used to make the trip home from school everyday much more worthwhile!!

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The inquiry took this into account. To quote the inspector's report: "Studies relating to the future of Sankey Park are underway; Councillors and local residents hope that the studies will result in proposals that include public use of the Old Hall ? but this is a forlorn hope".

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Oh I see, thanks Vic.

 

Is a 'study' the same as a 'master plan'. :?:oops::lol: Was the inspector knowleagble enough with the newly unveiled master plan to be able to condem it as merely a folorn hope ?

 

Makes you wonder why the council and other parties have enveiled it now though if there's no point and it can't go any further :roll:

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Probably so they {the Council} can bleat on about how hard they tried to save the Old Hall...... but to no avail.......

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Oh I see, thanks Vic.

 

Is a 'study' the same as a 'master plan'. :?:oops::lol: Was the inspector knowleagble enough with the newly unveiled master plan to be able to condem it as merely a folorn hope ?

 

Makes you wonder why the council and other parties have enveiled it now though if there's no point and it can't go any further :roll:

Well, after 20 years of failed attempts to find a community use, the inspector's knowledge of comparable cases (where there are always last-minute rescue packages for derelict heritage buildings as alternatives to the only viable scheme in town) might well lead him to think this latest scheme a "forlorn hope" (especially when the study says maintenance and running costs for the Hall will be high). Hadn't anyone already tried the Heritage Lottery Fund, which is what the study suggests? You'll forgive me if I also express some doubts about a study that suggests that people might take holidays in Sankey Valley Park (up to 140 pitches for touring caravans, plus camping places and cabins to rent), or that there's a market for peddle boats (their spelling) on the Sankey Canal, and that you could have a wally wagon (land train) going round. That's not to say that huge improvements to the area can't be made, but realistically, where's ?27m coming from? ?9m from Gulliver's World? (The Executive Board report said "?27m would be generated in the economy as a direct result of the project's capital expenditure" - they mean that's what it would cost.)

 

Sankey Valley Park and Resort - design, delivery and development strategy. http://212.248.237.112/CmisWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Document=10228

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Thought you were joking about the caravan holidays until I glanced at your link. ?30 per night is a bit steep though :roll:

 

Must admit after a brief read the whole concept and list of attractions does sounds rather good and I'd go if it was a reality. Just a pity it's where it is and all slap bang in the middle of some residential areas :(

 

One bit did stand out as I briefely scrolled through though and that was that the EP appointed Urban Splash for the conversion of Bewsey Old Hall into residential appartments etc and it is noted as being PART OF THE MASTER PLAN :?:?:

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I didn't see that the Urban Splash scheme was seen as part of the "Master Plan" except as (at the time of the study) it might become a fait accompli.

 

I think the Council still hope that Urban Splash might find the economic climate too rough to proceed. Seems unlikely - just think how much added value improving Sankey Valley would put on the new apartments!

 

Or that HCA would renege on the deal (but I imagine Urban Splash would have a conditional contract).

 

Given the difficulties of funding Walton Hall, why would WBC want another old building to maintain? (And the plans for weddings at Bewsey Old Hall would abstract revenue from Walton Hall as a venue...)

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I didn't see that the Urban Splash scheme was seen as part of the "Master Plan" except as (at the time of the study) it might become a fait accompli.

 

Thought I may hace misread it but I didn't here it is

The Homes and Communities Agency (formerly English

Partnerships) ran a developer competition and subsequently

appointed Urban Splash to convert Bewsey Old Hall to residential

accommodation and provide additional new residential units as

part of the project. The planning application for this development

was rejected in 2008 and is currently the subject of a planning

appeal.

 

 

I think the Council still hope that Urban Splash might find the economic climate too rough to proceed. Seems unlikely - just think how much added value improving Sankey Valley would put on the new apartments!

 

Surely it would devalue the appartments. Would you want to live in the middle of a visitors attraction, and for want of a better words, a holiday camp and theme park ?

 

Or that HCA would renege on the deal (but I imagine Urban Splash would have a conditional contract).

 

Contracts :lol::wink:

 

Given the difficulties of funding Walton Hall, why would WBC want another old building to maintain? (And the plans for weddings at Bewsey Old Hall would abstract revenue from Walton Hall as a venue...)

 

Very true and lets face it WBC do tend to shy away from any responsibilities associated with local heritage and older buildings. They tend to either palm them off or knock them down.

 

Sad really but obviously they are quite rightly regarded as nothing more than a public liability and a complete waste of space :wink::lol:

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I didn't see that the Urban Splash scheme was seen as part of the "Master Plan"

 

Thought I may hace misread it but I didn't here it is

The Homes and Communities Agency (formerly English Partnerships) ran a developer competition and subsequently appointed Urban Splash to convert Bewsey Old Hall to residential accommodation and provide additional new residential units as part of the project.

 

Part of the Urban Splash project, not the Sankey Valley Park and Resort project.

 

Given the difficulties of funding Walton Hall, why would WBC want another old building to maintain? (And the plans for weddings at Bewsey Old Hall would abstract revenue from Walton Hall as a venue...)

 

Very true and lets face it WBC do tend to shy away from any responsibilities associated with local heritage and older buildings. They tend to either palm them off or knock them down.

 

Sad really but obviously they are quite rightly regarded as nothing more than a public liability and a complete waste of space :wink::lol:

 

"Public liability" = more Council Tax. It's not just WBC. You all want low taxes so all the great philanthropic donations (Walton, Orford Park, Queens Park in Crewe) would now be refused because of the extra revenue costs of regular maintenance.

 

And maybe not so philanthropic - weren't Walton and Orford Hall and Park offloaded to the Council because their private owners couldn't afford the running costs? (Ah - the Bewsey Old Hall problem.... "The Council should ......" )

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.......Get off their backsides and turn it into a heritage centre, with a little effort it could even be a profit generating venture.! :shock:

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.......Get off their backsides and turn it into a heritage centre, with a little effort it could even be a profit generating venture.!

 

Sorry, Sha, get real. What heritage? A wattle and daub wall and a few ghost stories? How on earth would it generate a profit? What comparable buildings are there anywhere in the UK that can muster enough visitors to pay staff let alone cover restoration and maintenance costs?

 

Think of Buile Hill Mining Museum in Salford - local authority run, and now? "Financial problems and successive Local Authority cutbacks and lack of funding eventually closed this fine museum - and it is currently rumoured to be redeveloped as a hotel or executive apartments."

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And there lies one of the main problems these days. :roll:

 

[v]Vic's solution...[/v] it's old so not worth a carrot so knock it down, it's only wattle and daub after all. One thing you have got right Vic is that there are NOT many comparable buildings left anywhere in the UK which in my opinion is why the ones that remain should be preserved.

 

You know what Vic you should get a job in the council or the so called heritage protection departments :roll::evil:

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But it's not going to be knocked down, is it? All I'm doing is agreeing with council officers, the planning inspector, and English Heritage that the Urban Splash proposal is the only show in town that is financially viable. For those who want the Council to throw money at it, what do you want them not to spend money on instead? For those who think someone else should do something about it, what have you done (apart from say someone else should do something)?

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Oooooh Vic spat his dummy out :shock::lol:

 

Unfortunately Vic the responsibility for the future of the Historic Hall seems to lie solely with the Council, EP, Eng H and other numpties so no matter what opinions or other possible solutions anyone else has (or indeed anything anyone else has done or might do) to safeguard its future doesn't appear to really to matter or be taken seriously :evil:

 

With all the heritage and community funding freely available from various places shouldn't the council and current owners be working hard together to secure some of that for the Hall rather than just go for the easier option of passing the buck and wiping their hands of something that they are obvioulsy too weak to handle and too ignorant to see the possibilities :roll:

 

You are quite correct of course that Bewsey Old Hall is not actually being knocked down but to turn it into private flats and and no doubt many or it's original features and build methods along with completely spoiling it's surroundsing with further blots on it's lanscape (not to mention the loss of any possible future form of public access) is pretty much the same as knocking it down in my opinion (which counts for nothing of course).

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You are quite correct of course that Bewsey Old Hall is not actually being knocked down but to turn it into private flats and and no doubt many or it's original features and build methods along with completely spoiling it's surroundings with further blots on it's landscape (not to mention the loss of any possible future form of public access) is pretty much the same as knocking it down in my opinion (which counts for nothing of course).

Well, I respect your opinion of course, even when it's as daft as saying that finding a permanent alternative use for a listed building is the same as knocking it down.

 

You can't demand public access to buildings just because they're listed. The vast majority of listed buildings are in private ownership. In 35 years no-one has come up with a viable community use (or at least not one that any public or private body with the money has thought it worth doing).

 

Now - who's going to protect Warrington Transporter Bridge? That's a "scheduled monument" that isn't going to find an alternative use, so if anyone's got any money to preserve Warrington's heritage, it should go to maintaining the bridge.

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