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A futile war?

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As the death toll of British servicemen steadily increases in Afghanistan - does anyone know precisely why they are there? :? They are certainly there on the cheap, under resourced and under manned by a Government that has niether the guts to fully resource it or pull out. :twisted: Standard military practise throughout history , when occupying a hostile land, has been to set up fortress bases (linked nowadays by helicopters); thus allowing close supervision of the terrain. :? Problem is; this requires high numbers of troops and the helicopters - something we don't have; and neither do our luke warm Euro- allies. :cry: Also, when and if, we ever do pull out; the Islamic fundementalists will still be there - cos it's where they live. :shock:

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Look what happened last time we turned our back in Afghanistan, The Taliban turned it into a training ground.

 

I do think we should be there, but we should give better support to our troops. ie more of them and better resources.

:!:

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Well we seem to have our priorities a bit confused:

 

http://tinyurl.com/l79tlq

 

The locals won't use it because it makes a perfect killing ground for the enemy. The women aren't allowed to indulge in such things anyway. :roll::roll:

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They have been by day 1.

 

Its all down to cost and the priorties.

 

A huge chunk of money is held back because of our Human Rights lot.

 

Its a lot worse than people believe. Liason officers are inundated with upto 300 cases a day claiming they were ill treated.

 

When we see this the moral of troops goes out of the window. This causes resent and anger.

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I partially agree with you Rifles on the human rights bit, Trouble is the Americans did us no favours with all that trouble they had with abusing people at that prison, and didn't a man die in British custody.

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Think your losing track of the point: you can't fight "terrorism" with conventional Armies; yes, at a huge cost in men and materials, they can hold ground, perhaps giving time for hearts and minds initiatives to "win over" the mass of the population. :? BUT, we are at war with "an idea", and that "idea" has to be countered with counter-ideas. :shock: Thus, we should be employing an Army of folk to penetrate the nests of radical ideas to dispel it's influence on young minds, both here and abroad, thus draining the swamps of ignorance that foster this disease. :shock: Secondly, we must improve international intelligence systems, so that individuals and cells can be accurately identified, then take them out, using special forces. :shock: Cancers have to be cut out using fine surgery. :?

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Well perhaps you'll agree, that we should be fostering a secular society (as in ONE society for all), rather than the current promotion of "a diverse" society, with it's promotion of differing cultures and faiths, that provide a breeding ground for radical nonesense. :?:wink:

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Unfortunately your liberal PC mates havn't been, hence the nonesense of a so-called multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society, with "faith" schools to brainwash kids with supersticious nonesense, and foster differences that can fester into a loss of social cohesion. :twisted:

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You were just starting to get things right, and then you start talking crap again.

 

I am an atheist Obs a secular state is what I want. I know alot of liberals who feel the same way, as there are Tories and Labour supporters, It just you trying to pigeon hole people :wink: Something you accuse me of doing. Now look whos doing it. :wink:

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Think you'll discover, that the number of "faith schools" has increased over the last decade; with the blessing and encouragement of our PC liberal establishment. :roll: However, returning to the original topic: seems, according to Obama and Brown, that we are commited in Afghanistan, in order to "prevent it being used as a training ground for the export of terrorism to the US and UK." :? Errm, did our military occupation of N/Ireland "prevent" the IRA bombing of mainland Britain? :? And what does it say about their confidence in our ability to protect our borders and prevent access by terrorists? :?

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You are right Obs about the schools, I know the Tories are in favour of this as well, Not sure about the Liberals but it would not surprice me if they were as well, Lets them get schools on the cheap :!:

We never occupied Northern Ireland our troops were there to help with security as you know :wink:

 

It is very hard to stop a terrorist anywhere, I would rather stop them at the place of there departure than at there target :wink:

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Perhaps " a heavy military presence" in N/Irland was the wrong wording, but I'm sure the IRA would agree with "occupation"?! :wink: The weapon that is killing the majority of our troops, can be manufactured in any back room, anywhere in the world, so eventually they will (if not penetrated in the manner I described) produce home grown cells and bombs, with the sophistication of the IRA. :shock: So the occupation of Afghanistan becomes irrelevent. :? Much more relevent, is the eradication of the ignorance, superstition and cultural segregation that allows this cancer to grow. :cry:

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I agree Obs, but at the moment there are people going to Afghanistan to learn how to make them.

 

The British government should say to its citizens do not go there unless you are there with the army or an aid agency, you will deemed a terrorist, and you will be guilty until you can prove you are innocent. No British passport holder should be there without permission of our government :!:

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No government has the balls. The human rights lot would be rubbing their hands with glee. Especially lawyers and Jonathan Kings lookalike.

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There is no reason for anybody from the UK to go to Afghanistan at the moment, unless you work for the services, aid agency or the press/media. :!::!::!:

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No need for them to go to Afghanistan Kyje; many are travelling to Pakistan, taking electronic equipment with them, getting their idiology honed in the Madrassers and no doubt getting bomb making instruction too. :shock: The problem we have, is the mistaken belief that WE can create a 21st century state and society in Afghanistan; that the Taliban and Al Quaeda are the same thing with the same objectives: the former has aspirations to control Afghanistan, the later has a commitment to global terrorism. :? With no possibility of a military victory, perhaps we should be looking for a political compromise with the Taliban, whilst concentrating global resources on Al Quaeda? :? Meanwhile, while our politicians go through the motions of supporting this adventure that their hearts arn't really commited to - our young men are paying the price. :twisted:

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With no possibility of a military victory, perhaps we should be looking for a political compromise with the Taliban

 

I've no doubt we will in due course, especially if they oppose / kill those who would use Afghanistan as a terrorist base/training ground.

 

Remember the saying, the enemy of your enemy is your friend....and work out who is who. :wink:

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Despite claims by the government that they are spending enough on our armed services, spending as a percentage of GDP hasn't been so low since the 30s.

 

defencegdp.jpg8)8)

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And your point is :?:

 

As far as I am aware no political party is going to increase the defence budget, Our armed services are 30% smaller than they were in the early 1990s. They might well be spending enough, what do you consider enough :?:

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I would have thought that the point is obvious LtKije, even to you. Since 1997 our armed forces have been sent all over the world to fight other people's wars thanks to Tony "Kinda Straight Guy" Bliar making Genghis Khan look like a hippie pacifist. Meantime Gordon "Courage" Brown, wearing his Chancellor's hat and then as PM, has made sure that no more funds were available for them to carry out these tasks. :roll::roll:

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