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Lymm School uniform poll


Gary

Should Lymm High School have a new uniform?  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Lymm High School have a new uniform?

    • Yes
    • No
    • Not bothered either way


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You thought it was a 'bit over the top' Lucy, but you repeated it nevertheless on this forum where you know parents who disagree with the heads decision have been posting.

Obviously the person who said this wouldn't have made such a disparaging comment if they'd thought you'd be insulted by it, so it would seem that the opinion you have quoted is close to your own.

 

Your posting it on this forum is not only 'over the top' it is also 'below the belt'. The parent that disagree with the head have a right to their opinion. They obviously have deep concerns about the new head's leadership abilities.

Suggesting that they are unfit parents because they disagree with the head's dictatorial approach is ridiculous and sniping at them in this manner is gutless and pathetic.

Perhaps the objectors are concerned that their children grow up with real standards and are able to make their way in the world through their own achievements rather than through creeping!

Perhaps the 'mothers' you met could learn from their example!

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I read Lucy's post as supportive of Gail123, actually. Saying that she had also heard people being called unfit parents due to their views on uniform.

 

Fact is, there are a lot of people on both sides of the fence who behaved very badly and they are all claiming very loudly that whatever they did was only because they are such wonderful parents. I don't think much of it from either side, and I certainly wouldn't join in. I don't see how anyone's opinion over a blazer is an indication of parenting skills. The whole nasty business was avoidable and should now be allowed to die quietly.

 

But I find your post confusing. You have a go at Lucy and the mothers she met for not respecting the right of parent objectors to an opinion and at Lucy for posting it in this forum. Yet without knowing either mother mentioned, you have formed your opinion that they are the unfit parents and you feel entitled to call them and Lucy pathetic and gutless in this same forum. :?

 

So, without arguing with you, I'm trying to understand your point of view - do you live in Lymm? Have kids at LHS? Were you pro, con or neutral in the uniform debate? :)

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Sounds to me as if Sha is the type who will be marching with a red flag over this!

The mothers who were speaking to me were, in fact, addressing quite a large group so would have no idea whether they were preaching to the converted.

My own view is that those who are complaining about a lack of consultation are those who didn't get their own way. That's not unusual.

If there was any evidence that sloppy pupils turn out to be brighter pupils, I would support Sha all the way. But in fact the evidence is that smart, disciplined children do better, not just at school, but in life generally. That means discipline. And that means backing the head.

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Lucy is a troll and out to cause as much mischief as possible! :roll:

The fact is far more parents and teachers are opposed to the various new changes being implemented than those in favour.

But the governors are uniting behind the head teacher and it will end up being like Custer's last stand! :wink:

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To be honest I?ve never heard such rubbish in my whole life! Something that works; teachers and pupils are happy so let?s break it and then we?ll all get tutors for our kids! (- Lymmparent). To be honest one of the advantages of Lymm used to be that a good education was offered without having to get tutors in every subject to help with coursework but I guess that?s the way the school is going....

 

Now we?re being told that unless we accept the poor management, communication and consultation being offered by current LHS management and ignore the fact that our kids feel let down by the system we are ?bad parents?. No I?m not sore because I didn?t get my way, in actual fact I did get my way, I now don?t have to buy a new school uniform for the 8 months my daughter has left at school despite the threats that were made to the kids in assembly about them wearing it whether they were at school for 5 minutes or 5 years! And then we WILL vote with our feet, she will attend sixth form elsewhere where I?m sure will obtain excellent results whilst attending college in jeans! In fact I?m sure that John Deane?s results are better than LHS despite there being no uniform!

 

This site isn?t for me ? I will take my points in a constructive and professional manner and present them to people who can actually make a difference.

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This site isn?t for me ? I will take my points in a constructive and professional manner and present them to people who can actually make a difference.

 

Don't let the minority prevent you from expressing your views - if you do they will feel vindicated.

This forum is here for healthy debate - with practice you learn to ignore the trolls! :wink:

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To be honest I?ve never heard such rubbish in my whole life! Something that works; teachers and pupils are happy so let?s break it and then we?ll all get tutors for our kids! (- Lymmparent). To be honest one of the advantages of Lymm used to be that a good education was offered without having to get tutors in every subject to help with coursework but I guess that?s the way the school is going....

 

 

I did not say any of that, or anything remotely like it. If you want to take issue with me, then confine yourself to what I did say.

 

John Deane is an excellent educational establishment. I sincerely hope they ARE prepared to base every decision for the two years your child attends there on her personal opinions in order for you both to be content. It worries me slightly though that you don't seem to know how their academic results compare to LHS before you decide to send your daughter there. That would have been my first concern as a parent. Still, that's parents for you - some of us prioritise education and others.......

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I will do.

 

My last word.......

 

Extract from John Deane web site. Doesn?t appear too risky for A Levels!

 

?Sir John Deane's College is a very successful sixth form college in the North West of England, based in heart of Cheshire. We were described as "outstanding" by Ofsted following its most recent inspection and appear in its list of particularly successful schools and college.

 

Student Service Opportunities

 

You will be encouraged to help with the organisation of the College under the guidance of the Student Executive Committee, a team of students who are annually appointed, following nominations by staff. You may help to show new students round the College, to run the appointments system on Consultation Evenings and to host visitors to the College. In addition, you may wish to serve as a student mentor or be involved in peer-education projects.

 

Because we believe that students ought to have a say in the running of the College, there is a Student Council Committee elected by the students. Eight students serve annually on the Student Council Committee and represent the views of the students at meetings of the College Standing Committees. Annually you will also be invited to elect two Student Governors to serve on the College Board of Governors.?

 

It would appear that John Deane actually encourages student participation in the running of the college so no problems on that score!

 

I believe that happy and fulfilled students do well (as I did) and we will make decisions together with my child on that basis. How dare you patronise me in that way when you know NOTHING about my parenting skills!

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JDC is an excellent establishment, as I said. I have friends whose children are achieving there quite happily. I may choose to send my kids there if I feel it offers the best match for their needs at the time.

 

My post about lunchtime that you dismissed so rudely was intended to point out that your daughter would still have access to staff - so you could reassure her and reduce her worry. Of course, you didn't spot that. I wasn't joining in your anticipatory predictions of doom, therefore nothing I had to say was of interest, was it?

 

I'm not patronising you, and I have no opinion of your parenting skills - I don't know you from a hole in the ground, so I wouldn''t presume to judge on that score.

 

As for "How dare you" remarks, I am entitled to judge anything you choose to place in a public forum. You don't want opinions, don't post in a discussion forum.

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Gosh this is all getting rather personal :roll:

 

I can't actually figure out whether you actually disagree or agree with the new uniform etc anymore LymmP :?

 

You do like to keep a debate going though... I'll give you that :lol::wink:

 

As for Lucy... you are SCAREY... you remind me of some of my old teachers our 6th form head :shock:

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I'm pretty middle of the road. Now you mention it, something a bit smarter than the grey skirts would be nice, but I'd not have lobbied for change.

 

Similarly, shuffling ten minutes around here and there isn't going to rock the foundations of learning as far as I can see - no massive benefits, no massive disasters.

 

Lunchtime in shifts is more interesting. It effectively creates an extra timeslot in the day for kids to access limited resources like computers or labs. It reduces the pressure on catering staff and facilities and gives everyone more room and less of a crush, so hopefully a better service. As long as lunchtime activities aren't squashed out of existence, I think I'm gently in favour of that one.

 

What I oppose is the pointless spite - from both sides. I just don't see the need for Elsie to tell me that a new blazer and lunchtime is going to leave my kids with no self-esteem and rubbish GCSE grades and I'm an unfit parent if I don't object. Or the need for Vera to tell me Elsie isn't fit to have care of a gerbil if she thinks that way and I'm an unfit parent if I do join her in objecting. They can both bog off as far as I am concerned!

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As for Lucy... you are SCAREY... you remind me of some of my old teachers our 6th form head :shock:

 

 

Well, without having known your teachers, I will take that as a compliment.

 

As I said before, I do believe it "over the top" to suggest that people are unfit parents simply because they are either "for" or "against" the changes.

 

But I do sincerely believe the old fashioned teaching methods, where the teacher was able to use discipline, including corporal punishment if necessary, and could expect the support of the parents in doing so, worked better than the modern way.

 

I suppose only people of a certain age will remember those days and younger folk won't know anything about them anyway. But I can assure you that children in those days were better behaved and smarter and more mature. These days, girls in particular, may SEEM mature with their earrings, make-up and fashionable clothes. But underneath they are very immature.

There are exceptions, of course. And there are still parents around who exercise discipline. Research has shown that firmly disciplined children go on to do better in life that those who are not disciplined.

 

I think the new head at Lymm wants to improve discipline and sees a strict uniform policy is one way of achieving this. But it would appear that with about half the parents she has an uphill struggle.

 

As for Sir John Deane College, I agree it has a good reputation. But if you are a Lymm parent it has one big disadvantage. It isn't in Lymm.

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But I do sincerely believe the old fashioned teaching methods, where the teacher was able to use discipline, including corporal punishment if necessary, and could expect the support of the parents in doing so, worked better than the modern way.

 

I totally agree :wink:

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As for Lucy... you are SCAREY... you remind me of some of my old teachers our 6th form head :shock:

 

Well, without having known your teachers, I will take that as a compliment.

 

:D:wink: They took no messing and spoke their mind and didn't care if it offended the person it was aimed at :wink:

 

Some of them were very scarey and at times we disliked them... but looking back on it all now they only had our best interests at heart (well most of them :wink: ) and having re-met quite a few of the old-timers when my son started at the same senior school I reaslised what nice people and extremely good teachers they actually were.

 

As I said before, I do believe it "over the top" to suggest that people are unfit parents simply because they are either "for" or "against" the changes.

 

I completely agree and people who can make such silly comments are not really worth discussing :wink:

 

But I do sincerely believe the old fashioned teaching methods, where the teacher was able to use discipline, including corporal punishment if necessary, and could expect the support of the parents in doing so, worked better than the modern way.

 

Completely agree again. Unfortunately these days teachers have very little control over some pupils. The kids know there is not a lot that the teachers can actually do other than a detention or worst case scenario an 'exclusion', the latter being no more than an approved holiday from school. Sadly some parents do not take the matters seriously or discipline their children accordingly so it is a bit of a vicious circle.

 

If kids are not disciplined at home and in school from an early age then some of them become nothing more than a menace.

 

I suppose only people of a certain age will remember those days and younger folk won't know anything about them anyway. But I can assure you that children in those days were better behaved and smarter and more mature.

 

I'm not sure we were particularly smarter or more mature out of school.. we just knew the limits we could go to :wink::oops:

 

If you went beyond the limits in school then it was a rap across the knuckles or even the cane for more serious things... or in History you had a wooden board buster hurled at you (although obviously that would not be allowed these days) or wacked with a ruler as the teacher walked past. :lol:

 

I think the new head at Lymm wants to improve discipline and sees a strict uniform policy is one way of achieving this.

 

Surely that could have been done whilst retaining the current uniform though.

 

But it would appear that with about half the parents she has an uphill struggle.

 

Pretty balanced opinions on both sides of the 'parenting circle' then from what you say. Considering the number of kids at the school that a lot of parents :shock:

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If anyone ever hits my children by way of discipline, there will not be enough left of them to prosecute....

 

There is a difference between 'hitting' and 'discipline'.

 

I think they should bring back the cane.. although whether it would be as much of a deterrant today as it was in our day is a different matter.... kids these days 'know their rights' and the parents who disagree with it would probably try to sue the school for for 'whiplash' :wink::roll:

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I cannot believe that anyone thinks it acceptable to strike a child of 11 for bad behaviour in a classroom. That is not discipline, it is assault. It instils fear, not respect and it teaches nothing except the fact that if you shout loudly and hit people, you get your own way. If someone in the pub keeps interrupting my conversation and I thump him, I end up in the dock. I am damned if some annoying drunk is having more legal protection than my kids!

 

Discipline is a matter of establishing rules, and respect for the rules, by putting in place appropriate consequences. Additional homework, detention, loss of privilege, exclusion from activities. Any teacher who cannot control 30 kids without bruising some of them is in the wrong job.

 

My kids know that if they go AWOL without an excellent reason, then every hour I spend worrying will see them grounded for a week, no exceptions. That works far more effectively than a slap ever would. Similarly, they know that any punishment they earn at school will be echoed at home when I find out.

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LP,

You are on sticky ground on that subject.

WHY do you think there is so little respect and NO discipline these days?

For every one family that manages to use your methods and get them to work, there are hundreds that don't.

The cane never did anyone any harm. And why shouldn't kids know fear? The very world we live in is FULL of fear. Better to learn abou actions and "consequences" when they are young enough to learn rather than slap them on the wrist for beating some old pensioner up. :roll:

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So how do you account for the appalling conduct of the old students from the various public schools where beatings are virtually a religion? By your rules, they should all be paragons of virtue incapable of fraud, theft, embezzlement, adultery, assault, drugtaking or speeding....... not quite working out, is it?

 

Discipline is a parental responsibility. Teachers are not employed to compensate for poor parenting. In fact, teachers should not be required to put up with undisciplined children. Persistently disruptive individuals should be removed from classes until their parents remedy the problem.

 

Under no circumstances should children ever be in a position where any adult present can beat them whenever they see fit. We gave up things like that along with keeping slaves and stuffing small boys up chimneys!

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I remember my son being caned when he was at Lymm Grammar in the 70s. He "bunked off", one afternoon, and was caught at Lymm Dam when he should have been in school. I received a letter, a few days later, advising me of this and saying he had been caned.

 

I did not go to the school to tell them how wrong they were or threaten to sue them or wring my hands and say how terrible it was that my son might now be afraid of authority. I asked my son if he had been "guilty as charged" and he said he had. I told him it served him right and he agreed.

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