asperity Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I am trying very hard not to start SHOUTING at you stupid people to open your eyes to what is happening NOW!!!!! What Maggie did is IN THE PAST and any changes she made to social housing regulation 20 years ago (20 YEARS AGO), if they were so awful, the subsequent governments have had ample opportunity to change them for the better. So why haven't the (by your account) much needed changes been made? Was Maggie so clever that she set any changes she made in stone? If you feel so strongly about the need for social housing for local people why are you moaning on a local forum instead of lobbying your MP, or better still Downing Street? Use the internet to protest to the peoples representatives rather than trying to score cheap political points against your neighbours. GROW UP PEOPLE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I'm with you on that one Asp..... It really annoys me when people merely throw the blame back on Maggie T's era.... If everything today that is so obviously wrong is all down to her and her party then somehow they must have somehow stayed in power As you mention those who 'took over' the position from Magie's reign ... with the claim and promise to change things for the better .... have obviously not risen to the challenge and have failed miserably ! Wonder what people will be saying about Gordie in 20 years time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Yes SHE is to blame; AND likewise ALL subsequent occupants of No10 Downing St. As for getting the current tranche of MPs to do anything about it Asp; havn't you heard of Bliar's Babes, "NEW" Labour etc? ALL taken on board the "new Labour" bandwagon as "yes-men" at a time when New Labour were trying to "out-Tory" the Tories, and anyone with remote leanings to Clause 4, the preservation of Council Housing, Nationalisation etc was ostracised - and now the wheel has turned full circle - ALL of them can be seen for the shower of s*** they are. As for the point on "demographics" Kyje; most elderly folk have contributed a huge amount in NI and taxes, and private savings to cater for their pensions, and still pay taxes for schooling the young of others. We are an over-populated Island in an over-populated World; so crowding ever more charity cases upon us isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Obs your Ni contributions payed for the people that retired before you. I completely agree that most elderly people have payed vast amounts in, but it payed for the people who retired before them. With an aging population the system will collapse, as there will be to many people claiming and not enough people putting in. when talking demographics you can not just scratch the surface and say we are over crowded. You have to look at the whole picture when it comes to demographics. Something all political parties have not. The aging population might not affect you Obs but if you have any children it will affect them. Asp I getting worried, your gallant defense of Maggie the witch. I am beginning to think you fancied her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I have never understood any of this proper gander anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 eagle are you taking the goose again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Our social welfare budget isn't spent solely on the elderly, although perhaps we do try too hard to extend life for it's own sake rather than it's quality; the young consume a fair slice of the pot, for unemployment pay, benefits, education, housing and health; and additional demand comes with the families of every immigrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Obs I agree again. But the UK's population in aging rapidly, there are more old than young and its getting worse. We are going to end up with more people in retirement than working. We have to make babies or import them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 We could always put Madonna in charge?! btw over a million of these old grumpies are living abroad, contributing to the respective local economies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Good idea but I fear she is to busy adopting the third world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Just shows what money can do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 As you mention those who 'took over' the position from Magie's reign ... with the claim and promise to change things for the better .... have obviously not risen to the challenge and have failed miserably ! Correct, they have failed to change all those devisive policies that Maggie put in place, because both Blair and Brown admired her. They are/were the Tories Mk2 and when they get voted out we will put back the Tories Mk1 and still nothing will change. Regardless of living in the past, her policies are still with us now and as such can still be blamed for the mess we are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Asp I getting worried, your gallant defense of Maggie the witch. I am beginning to think you fancied her She's a bit old for me, but I wouldn't climb over her to get to Gordon the Moron. The point I'm trying to make, and all you Thatcher haters are trying to ignore, is that the running of the country doesn't stand still and things only change when people in power want them to change. The reason why Bliar and Brown haven't changed things is because it has suited their agenda to keep the status quo. You may as well blame Wilson, Heath and Callaghan for creating the conditions that allowed Maggie into No10 in the first place. Or perhaps you could go further back and blame Hitler for starting WW2. To continue to blame one person for all the perceived ills of the world is really puerile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Or perhaps you could go further back and blame Hitler for starting WW2. But Hitler did start WW2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Thats right Wolfie, play thick. What I'm saying is that you might as well blame Hitler starting WW2 for the situation the country finds itself today. How far back do you go before drawing a line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Bloody Romans!! Asp, all these lefty Maggie haters can't stand the thought that a Labour government isn't all for the working man; supporting strikes and openiong pits and nationalising railways etc, so they try to deflect the fact by calling them "Tories" instead. They aren't Tories chaps they are realists and finally came round to the thinking that old Labour wasn't, isn't and never will be the choice of the masses What they can't grasp is as you have said, the country keeps moving on and if everything that Maggie did was so bad; it would have been changed by now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Why can't people just move on from past disasters or successes and learn from them without just moaning and throwing daggers. That doesn't solve anything 'We' should be concentrating on what's happening right now and on how to resolve it whilst at the same time still looking to the future and how any decisions might affect the country in the long term. The process should of course include possible reversing of any past errors that have failed the country so that a workable and sensible solution can at last be found !!! I'm an idiot... I know... please don't tell me until tomorrow as I hate politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Is it tomorrow yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Thats right Wolfie, play thick. Who said I'm playing BTW I don't particularly blame Maggie for anthing apart from that yucky ice cream I mentioned before, oh and the housing crisis and breaking up society, putting millions out of work and closing the mines, but apart from that, to change anything one has to look at history and the mistakes that were made, in order to prevent making similar mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dismayed, the problem with politics is the politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Is it tomorrow yet? Not quite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dismayed, the problem with politics is the politicians. Guess we do agree on some things after all eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 All learning is based on experience, or the experience of others - it's called history. A child burns it's hand in the flame and learns never to repeat the mistake. The problem with politics and politicians, and indeed the vast majority of the electorate is, that they live solely in the present, with an electoral horizon of 5 years - they exist to be re-elected rather than to lead, learn from the past, and aspire to a future that avoids past errors. After the devastastion of WW2, soldiers returned home, homogenised in their aspiration for a land fit for heros, without poverty, homelessnes, class distinction, ill health etc; and to the surprise of everyone (given Churchill was the favourite to win); they elected a Socialist Government (clause 4 and all)., which set up a national health service and nationalised our essential public services. Now, this post-war concensus continued (broadly speaking), with both subsequent Tory and Labour Governments. A fatal blow occured when Ted Heath signed us into Europe, which was at the time, merely a "common" market; but the real departure from this post war concensus came with Maggie, who opened Pandorass Box; the rest is history! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The trouble with history Obs is, People look at it in different ways, I do not agree with your view of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 As the contributors to "history" are merely human, there is a tendency for subjectivity; and subsequent exstrapolation of material tends to be used to build one's case. That's why politicians (especially) always race to complete their memoirs to stake out their version of the truth; it's also why they try to set up Inquiries that are closed to the public and have no legal powers! Still, I think there is general concensus on the subject of "the post war political concensus" - after all, it gave us the Welfare State - albeit a little battered and bruised now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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