Gary Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Due to the lack of debate on the subject does this mean residents are no accepting the inevitable? If my memory serves me right it was a hot topic last year! http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/articles/5548/1/Music-festival-gets-the-go-ahead/Page1.html#postedcomment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Is there any point in debating it Doesn't sound to me that residents are now accepting the inevitable... they are just 'stuck' with it now approval has been given for another year (despite the objections). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Perhaps you could get the "local" Councillor to sort it out?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 He did. The application was for a permanent licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I started a slightly earlier topic headed CREAMFIELDS LICENCE HEARING under question time and my WHY WHY question of WBC awaits a response. Insufficient for Councillor Kennedy to say the permanent application was defeated. For residents affected last year by noise it is a hollow victory when we are back in the same position as last year, apart from one 'extra' condition this year - Halton B.C require to know the official attendance figure. Isn't this something which should have happended in 3 previous years anyway, given that the licence application is related to maximum attendance figures. Will there really be no more than 29,999 each day this year when last year's application was for 39,999 each day and 49,999 when it was a one day bash in 2006/7. Yes there has been lots of debate this year - in fact ever since August Bank Holiday last year - even if all quiet on this forum. 180 representations against Creamfields this year compared with only 16 last year. Well 167 actually as 12 were deemed over 1.5 miles from the site and one had no name on. What 2 years of a one day event and a third year of a 2 day concert has proved is that it is impossible to prevent public nuisance noise affecting residents in local communities and where the nuisance is worse depends upon which way the wind is blowing. The residents have a right to protection from public nuisance and should be able to rely upon their Council to refuse a licence or at the very least (which is what WBC could have done) seek some tighter conditions - after all even one of the Halton Licensing Committe posed the question "does the music have to go on until 4 a.m ?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Perhaps you could get the "local" Councillor to sort it out?! I didn't object ........although I don't really agree with it being where it is though. I'm hoping they will play some 'nicer' music this year as I couldn't quite figure out the 'boom boom' bass sounds last year from my house ... didn't sound like real music to me... am I getting old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Unfortunately too many folk like you about Dismayed - prepared to put up with public nuisance noise. If everyone beyond 1.5 miles of Creamfields who suffered last year's noise levels had complained to the Council the distance limit would have had to be extended and more objecting to this year's Licence could have stood a better chance of getting tighter conditions or even a refusal. I see the people of St Agnes, Cornwall, have had eniough of a 10,000 strong students beach pop festival over last two years and their Council has stopped it - forcing a relocation to a Safari Park in Kent - maybe Creamfields will learn something from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 So who set the limit of 1.5mile and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Everything connected with a Premises Licence is controlled by the Licensing Act 2003 but subsequest to the Act coming into force a Guidance Document - 139 pages - under section 182 of the Act was issued by The Secretary of State for Culture Media and Sport on 28th June 2007 and became effective from that date. 'Interested Parties' are the bodies or individuals who are entitled to make representations to licensing authorities on application for a licence and such representation can be in favour of the application or against it. In the case of Creamfields' first application in 2006 55% of the venue was in Daresbury (Halton Council) and 45% in Walton (Warrington Council) so the application went to HBC and the Hearing was held there and has been in 2007/8/9. Representations should be accepted from bodies/individuals from an address IN THE VICINITY of the event. According to WBC their neighbouring HBC first wanted the VICINITY to be put at a maximum of 400 metres and WBC 'negotiated' a wider interpretation of VICINITY as 1.5 miles. Remember however that this was set BEFORE the first event in 2006 and although the three concerts so far have all shown that public noise nuisance has been experienced over 3 miles from the venue, particularly in Warrington Borough, WBC do not seem prepared to renegotiate the 1.5 miles limit despite the fact that even before the first bash in 2006 sound 'experts' predicted that sound would penetrate beyond 1.5 miles. What is the fairest interpretation of VICINITY in relation to a pop festival needing sound to keep 30,000 or more revellers happy ?. Incidentally Councillor Paul, I appreciate that you are a relatively new Ward Councillor but in view of all the local interest in this event the Guidance doc. mentioned above should have been made available to you and from which you will see that you could have made a representation as could our MP - as for this year's licence application and the changes from wanting a licence for any weekend of the year, then for August Bank Holiday weekend only, then at the 11th hour wanting 3 years only - plus original press and public notices having to be replaced because of incorrect dates the whole process has been, in the words of Sir Alan, "A TOTAL MESS" and should be appealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Given the Authorities appear so laxed in their approach to this - what is their motive? Are they just incompetant at protecting the interests of residents or is their some financial gain involved for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Halton have always welcomed the event - they view it as a huge cultural attraction and there is a large licence fee and must be bags of overtime for staff - last Monday night's licence application went on from 6.30 p.m until a quarter to midnight. Then their Environmental Health Officer - EHO - and his two side kicks were there and have been putting weeks of work into justifying that the event could be managed for the next three years with no probs for those attending and no nuisance within the vicinity. Then over the weekend of the bash more overtime in monitoring sound etc. Police also seem to want to bend over backwards to accept the concert whether for 2009 or next three years - again lots of overtime and weeks of preplanning for traffic management etc. OK so Creamfields are billed for policing over the event weekend but not for all the pre-planning time. I don't think Warrington Council would have given a licence in 2006 and perhaps explains why the venue was slightly more in Halton than Warrington. I understand WBC have managed to recover some but by no means all of their costs over last three years so with this and the Police much of the local costs falls on Council and Rates tax payers. After first two concerts Cream gave ?10,000 a year shared equally between Daresbury, Hatton and Walton Parish Councils (interestingly made just before licence applications were submitted) but nothing after last year's event. Maybe we shouldn't forget that after last year's 10th Anniversary festival (first two days event on the pretext of a celebratory 10 years do) Cream commissioned a Merseyside quango to give a report on the economics of the festival and they came up with a conclusion that the concert had brought over ?7,000,000 into the 'region' based upon the reported weekend spends of 200 persons attending the concert who filled in a survey form. Largest proportion of these 'spends' was on the tickets and boose and food none of which has benefited either Halton or Warrington. But let's not forget the two local landowners without whom the festival couldn't happen on our doorstep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Unfortunately too many folk like you about Dismayed - prepared to put up with public nuisance noise. If everyone beyond 1.5 miles of Creamfields who suffered last year's noise levels had complained to the Council the distance limit would have had to be extended and more objecting to this year's Licence could have stood a better chance of getting tighter conditions or even a refusal. I see the people of St Agnes, Cornwall, have had eniough of a 10,000 strong students beach pop festival over last two years and their Council has stopped it - forcing a relocation to a Safari Park in Kent - maybe Creamfields will learn something from this. Knowsley springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't think Warrington Council would have given a licence in 2006 and perhaps explains why the venue was slightly more in Halton than Warrington. After first two concerts Cream gave ?10,000 a year shared equally between Daresbury, Hatton and Walton Parish Councils (interestingly made just before licence applications were submitted) but nothing after last year's event. I can't say whether they would or wouldn't, but I think that I probably could say with some confidence that had Creamfields not been granted the licence, it would have been granted on Appeal by the Magistrates. With regards to the money, for last year's event it was offered and is still awaited and the Parish Councils believe that it will be paid to them shortly, indeed I have sent a reminder to Mr Barton the CEO of Cream. I do not know if there will be a payment for the 2009 festival. PS Why have we got 2 topics on this subject, can 1 be closed pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 A TOTAL MESS" and should be appealed. As a resident Peter, you could appeal the decision as you were an objector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I thought there was only ever one Peter on this Forum - Peter the original and then there was Peter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You are right, slip of the typing finger Pedro.....life does get complicated when folk don't post in their own name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I don't think Warrington Council would have given a licence in 2006 and perhaps explains why the venue was slightly more in Halton than Warrington. After first two concerts Cream gave ?10,000 a year shared equally between Daresbury, Hatton and Walton Parish Councils (interestingly made just before licence applications were submitted) but nothing after last year's event. I can't say whether they would or wouldn't, but I think that I probably could say with some confidence that had Creamfields not been granted the licence, it would have been granted on Appeal by the Magistrates. With regards to the money, for last year's event it was offered and is still awaited and the Parish Councils believe that it will be paid to them shortly, indeed I have sent a reminder to Mr Barton the CEO of Cream. I do not know if there will be a payment for the 2009 festival. PS Why have we got 2 topics on this subject, can 1 be closed pleased. Mr Barton has now responded to me, and I quote: "I have instructed payment - I didn't know we hadn't paid." So I guess it will be on its way....hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Perhaps you could get the "local" Councillor to sort it out?! I didn't object ........although I don't really agree with it being where it is though. I'm hoping they will play some 'nicer' music this year as I couldn't quite figure out the 'boom boom' bass sounds last year from my house ... didn't sound like real music to me... am I getting old Unfortunately too many folk like you about Dismayed - prepared to put up with public nuisance noise. If everyone beyond 1.5 miles of Creamfields who suffered last year's noise levels had complained to the Council the distance limit would have had to be extended and more objecting to this year's Licence could have stood a better chance of getting tighter conditions or even a refusal. I see the people of St Agnes, Cornwall, have had eniough of a 10,000 strong students beach pop festival over last two years and their Council has stopped it - forcing a relocation to a Safari Park in Kent - maybe Creamfields will learn something from this. Pedro... People like me... well charming I've already said that I don't agree with where it is but because of where I live (which is outside the 1.5 mile radius) I have no real grounds for objection to a licence.. therefore I didn't object. YES.. I could hear it from my back yard last year and YES it wasn't what I'd call music but that's not grounds for objecting becasue if I went inside I couldn't actually hear it (double glazing is a wonderful invention). YES... I got stuck in traffic for about 15 minutes going to and from Preston Brook on the day Creamfields was on last year... but again that is no cause for objection as I get stuck in far worse jams going through town centre on a normal day. YES I was very worried about so many people attending a concert just up the road from where I live.. I was worried about crime and other such things but as I am not aware of anything actually happening around here so that is no grounds for a objection from me either. Therefore I couldn't really object could I.... so I didin't ...... simplees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Of course you could have objected You first posted hearing the "boom boom bass" noise "from your house" but now you say it was from the back yard to your house and all quiet on the Heath front when you go indoors. Well lucky you - we don't all have double glazing and I find it healthy to keep at least one bedroom window open If everyone thought they were out of order in objecting to Public Nuisance Noise (a criminal offence) 'cos they were more than 1.5 miles from the concert (the joint definition of VICINITY agreed brtween Halton and Warrington Councils) then the licence applicant (who are a Liverpool Company) can, and do, argue that few if any persons beyond 1.5 miles of the concerts are affected by noise. In a way you are proving the point that no one knows just how many people suffered noise nuisance last year because many think they cannot complain - OK so a dozen have made representations this year and had them thrown out on the 1.5 miles 'rule' but they still have the right to protection of their local authority as you have. Incidentally, only this year has Halton Council defined how the 1.5 miles is calculated - it is 1.5 miles as the crow flys from the nearest point on the curtilage of your residence to the nearest point on the boundary of any field on the concert site where amplified music is played - now not many people know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Well all I can say to that Pedro is ........ I'm sorry I could only hear the "boom boom bass" noise whilst sitting in my back yard (which I class as part of my house by the way ) ... although I'd love to have a huge back garden I don't have one I'm also sorry that I couldn't hear the noise to a level that really annoyed me when inside my house due to my double glazing... guess that makes me a snob eh And finally I keep all my windows closed at night as my son suffers from bad hay fever and so do I so it's not healthy to keep our windows open all night As I've already said I DON'T AGREE with where it is at all and it is a worry for the obvious reasons other than the noise. I'd hate to be nearer than I am to it... but if you want to blame people like me for the fact that it was passed again this year then ok Guess at least the buck has stopped somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Fair comment and no intention to make you out a snob 'cos you have a back yard and double glazing - for all I know you could have a large front garden and several ponds with ten grand's worth of Koi Carp I may not have put my point too well but from those I have spoken to since last year's inaugural two days Creamfields there were probably more persons annoyed by noise beyond 1.5 miles than within it and if the representations this year had reflected this then the 1.5 miles could have been more seriously challenged. As you have said, you did not consider making an objection because of the distance limit and I guess there were many others thinking the same way - yes the representations would have been rejected by Halton BC but the point would have been made, On the other hand I know of many within the 1.5 miles who have not objected because some members of families stay at home and put up with the noise while others take 4 FREE tickets worth ?400+ offered by Cream or, if very near the venue, ?500 to go away for the weekend or stay at home and not complain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 I do see and I also understand the points you were making Pedro... I was just feeling a little grumpy when I replied to you earlier.... (No Koi Carp though I'm afraid, just a goldfish in a grubby looking tank ) I wasn't actually here for the first events so I can only base my opinion on last years event (and NO I wasn't paid to go away before you ask ). If this year proves to be an annoyance to me then I will object next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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