observer Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 The first duty of any State is the protection and safety of it's citizens; for which purpose it employs Armed Forces and Police etc. Part of such duties naturally entails the capability to control public disorder - for which purpose armed and trained riot police are used. Now in the white heat of a riot, it's not that surprising to discover that some injustices occur. So, what do we want, a`gelded police force incapable of maintaining social order or occasional injustices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 The problem Obs is that previously we didn't get videos put on youtube of burly 6ft 2" coppers cuffing a small woman and then battoning her legs to get her to comply. And now it is all over the internet for the whole world to see alomng with the video of the copper pushing over Ian Thompson We need coppers to keep law and order but we also need coppers who understand what law and order actually is. I am a staunch believer in punishment as you may be aware but what I saw on those two videos was police brutality, cruelty and downright bully boy, Police state tactics. The coppers involved should be sacked and with no pension too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I too saw people being hit with batons and pushed to the ground. In isolation thee was no need for it, but rewind the video and in the majority of cases those same people had been told/asked to move on several occasions. The police then have a choice do they say 'please move' or give them a push . Much of the video footage was taken with the sole purpose of highlighting so called police brutality, by inciting the police into a response. It is a common practice at most protests in the hope that victims then get compensation. From what I have seen the police response was kindergarden stuff compared to the brutality they dished out during the miners strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 The raw truth is; that (riot) Police are the "yard dogs" of the State; put a muzzle on them, and they become ineffective. If folk don't want to chance a cracked head, just don't go there OR go there with the same amount of equipment, training, dicipline and tactics as the Police. As Socrates said: " A mob is no more an Army, than a pile of building rubble is a house". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 That's a very philosophical statement for a Brazilian footballer to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Don't think Greek philosophers got the same level of wages as footballers?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 The mob, crowd, or whatever you want to call it shouldn't have been there in the first place so they get no sympathy from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Most "protests" are organised and conducted with the permission of the Authorities; problem is; most get "taken over" by anarchist nutcases and chavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 The problem Obs is that previously we didn't get videos put on youtube of burly 6ft 2" coppers cuffing a small woman and then battoning her legs to get her to comply Didn't used to get too many small women screaming obscenities in the faces of policemen trying to do their jobs. Plenty on here have previously advocated a return to "cuff round the ear 'ole" policing as a response to anti-social behavior. You can bet that if she'd been badly hurt there would have been tearful interviews with her from her hospital bed and demands for the Chief Constables head to roll. She was told to move, didn't move, got a clip, moved. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 The woman can now be approached through her agent Max Clifford, he will fit her in when not visiting Mr Goody in jail.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 It's unlikely the policemen will get offered the services of Max Clifford as it's unlikely they will be joining Mr Goody ......in jail. The right to protest is democratic and we should be able to exercise this right without being obsructed by thugs either in uniform or out. Discusting behaviour on both sides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 The police are there to protect the interests of the State; which isn't necessarily the interests of the Government of the day or indeed the general public. However, we have witnessed attempts by this Government to use the Police (as we saw in 1984) to supress opposition - but in a slightly more covert manner than Maggie did. The Romans used bread and games to tame the mob, nowadays it's benefits and football. Opposition in this Country is tolerated as long as it is ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 obs wrote Don't think Greek philosophers got the same level of wages as footballers?! Wink i found this a while back and this quote reminded me of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Classical!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Why don't the police use water cannon? That way, the yobs wouldn't get close enough to wind them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 ..... with a dye in the water so culprits can be traced after the demo - sounds a bit like common sense Pierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 The mob, crowd, or whatever you want to call it shouldn't have been there in the first place so they get no sympathy from me. They had every right to be there Adam; in fact as much right as the police who were there to control them... that is lawful protest and probably a fundemental British right your grandad fought for. As for the copper that struck the woman with his batton; he is a thug and has now rightly been suspended and hopefully will be out of a job. As a taxpayer I pay his wages to uphold the law; not to break it and go attacking women with battons just to fuel his violent fantasies It appears that in some cases these packs of feral TSG coppers are turning up to these demos without their police numbers on show on their lapels and doing it so they can't easily be identified if they run amok. Now they are being caught out and should rightly be brought to book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 no need for a dye in the water obs just use the smart water technology that a lot of shops use today. it is a colourless liquid that will fluoresce under uv light and is very difficult to remove. you can get personalised smart water for coding your personal items with. it is coded and registered to you so that any items that are stolen can be identified and returned(hopefully). one thought occurs, how do the french deal with protester, they seem to have so many that maybe we should have a look at how they deal with them, (i suspect it is a lot more heavy handed than our lot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Rent a mob are now using their own cameras to catch police in the act, by goading them into violent reaction. If it's a choice between the anarchy of the mob, or the thuggery of of our State yard dogs; I'll support the yard dogs every time - it takes a thief to catch a thief! Surprised at you Baz; you'll be advocating soon, that the Police should have asked these chavs nicely, to go sit on the naughty step! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Obs, I know what you are saying mate but you can't have coppers taking off their identifying numbers and wading in cracking women across the face and pushing over innocent men (and possibly causing life threatening injuries) you just can't. Why else would a copper want to remove his numbers other than the fact that when he goes in kicking he can't be identified and so in effect he is guilty of pre-meditated violence. A copper doing that is as culpable as someone going to demonstrate armed with a gun. I'm not personally one who would normally defend such protests and in point of fact I am not, the Ian Tomlinson chap was nothing to do with the protests as he was walking home from work and the woman smacked by the cowardly sergeant was at a wake for the dead bloke a few days later. Your statement of "anarchy" to describe the two events is wholly and factually wrong I'm afraid and the two people caught up in the melee are far from being chavs. If they were rioting chavs or ranting extremist muslims then fine, wade in all guns blazng; but when it comes down to hitting blokes on the way home from work and people at a rememberance meeting for the dead man then something is not right. As I said before; hopefully the two coppers involved; if found guilty (which they probably won't be) will be sacked ad stripped of any pensions they may have because I for one don't want my taxes paying for their retirement. STOP PRESS.... apparently there is a third incident that has now been sent to the IPCC for evaluation..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Woe! This is nothing new - (taking numbers off etc) it all happened in 1984 during the miners strike (again under Maggie!)- but ten times worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 During the miners strike 'police officers' were drafted in that didn't even have identification of which county police force they were part of, never mind numbers. Many police officers of the day were convinced that they were army personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Indeed and many miners goaded the police and some killed a taxi driver by dropping a concrete block from a brdige onto his car.... is that what you want to return to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 No - so precisely why the State requires these yard dogs - to keep the ferrel dogs in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrdy Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 the Ian Tomlinson chap was nothing to do with the protests as he was walking home from work Took his time then as he was caught on camera at least an hour before arguing with a police van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.