Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Tilly

Taxes

Recommended Posts

If you feel I'm mindless not wanting to pay for everyone elses medical bills, many of whom do not contritute but who are a massive drain on resources

 

Try that statement again when you have cancer...and your insurance will not pay up for some small print qualifier or you are too old to be insured at cost that is commensurate with your pension. What do you want a means test for the deserving (let me guess, that you are the top of your own list). What qualifies as a massive drain on resources?...when you have stroke?...when you are 86 and filling your own nappies? The principles of a welfare state are well founded. In the bad times when someone scrubs your job, repossesses your home and your 5 series you still get the care you deserve. Are you seriously advocating we leave people to die because YOU think they are undeserving. Malthus and the guy with the toothbrush tash would be proud to have you on their team...does that make you deserving.

 

You have got a bad case of Tony and Gords liberal malthusian dilemma. Hope you are insured against it. The symptoms are assuming everyone but yourself is taking the P*** (which is probably true in Tony and Gords case) the common term is acute middle class paranoia. Killing off all those who are less fortunate than yourself has the nasty side effect of eventually placing you at the bottom of the pile....where guess what...YOU become the sponge on society.

:shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent post Father J, be careful you will be accused of upsetting your fellow posters and supporting Man U.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You just beat me to it Eagle in congratulating Father Jack on an excellent post. :wink::wink:

 

Unfortunately when it comes to the NHS, the short term benefit of opting out during the healthy years would soon revert to opting back in when ill. :roll::roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You see Tilly, it's like how until a couple of years ago, any comment on immigration other than saying we should have open borders was condemned as evil racism. So now any coment on the NHS other than saying it's underfunded is equally condemned.

Suggesting that folk might care to make provision for themselves brings accusations that you want to kill off people.

 

It would be funny until you realise these people are allowed to vote

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Malthus and the guy with the toothbrush tash would be proud to have you on their team...

 

....and that is exactly why this country is going to the dogs. Someone dares to suggest that people should stand on their own two feet and take responsibility for their own situation, and they get accused of being a fascist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Suggesting that folk might care to make provision for themselves brings accusations that you want to kill off people.

 

It would be funny until you realise these people are allowed to vote

 

Thank you for 'allowing' me to vote. It is hilarious that I should feel for those less fortunate, I know. but if missing the point is the qualifier for the vote you most certainly will get your way.

 

If you feel I'm mindless not wanting to pay for everyone elses medical bills, many of whom do not contritute but who are a massive drain on resources

 

Which bit of that statement do you get "suggesting that folk might care to make provision for themselves" from? You can pay for yourself you know...do you? As to my 'accusing' people of any political leaning please provide suggestions for a political model that refuses to provide care for people because of their social standing (for which I assume death would be inevitable) and I will gladly use it in order to side step your sensitivities. I can think of a couple..Stalinist, American dream etc. But since they all use Malthus as the solution I do not see it makes my original statement less valid.

 

I am curious to know how much you pay to care for yourself. How much is your premium, are you aged, are you in a low payed job, do you have a disability or hereditary disease because I am curious as to where you get your cover if you experience any of the aforesaid...Bupa...I think not :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bupa, Prudential et al were not set up to provide long term care or old age. They were set up primarily to allow those who wanted to pay (of whom I am one at the moment) to get faster treatment than that available on the NHS.

 

I pay for my cover because I can't afford to be off work with an affliction that is operable or cureable, whilst waiting for a space to become available on the NHS. To that end, I have used it a couple of times to great effect.

 

I don't however subscribe to the theory that I should therefore have reduced or no national insurance taken from me. FJH mentions stroke victims; my mum had a stroke almost a year ago now and I have come to realise just what an asset to this country the NHS actually is. She is 86 and has been looked after magnificently from the paramedics that came out on the day through the hospital and the stroke ward, on to Padgate House for some rehab and finally back in her own home and visited by carers twice a day who help to maintain her independance.

 

Private medical insurance would not even contemplate covering those things unless the premiums were in the hundreds of pounds a month......

 

Be thankful for what we have got because we all may have to use it at some stage in our futures!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jack, if you'd care to read my posts in this thread you'd see that I've already said that I, personally, wouldn't choose to opt out of the NHS - while I believe it has great scope for improvement I think it still represents reasonable value for money.

 

What I do object to is being forced to pay for services that I'll never use - services often designed specifically for the benefit of the lazy or feckless - for the simple reason that I've worked hard for many years, I've made sacrifices and denied myself things, all in order to ensure that I've provided for my own needs in ANY conceivable future circumstances.

 

There are very few in the UK "less fortunate" than anyone else, anyone who starts out with two arms, two legs and a functioning brain is capable of working and earning a living. Maybe some will have more success in life than others, maybe some will be able to afford to support big families, be by their efforts able to afford to do all the things they want to do - that's just the way it is, we can't all be Richard Bransons.

 

The welfare state was only ever designed as a safety net, not as a way of life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am reminded of work where the laziest people did the most shouting. Could it be that those shooting down Tilly are the biggest NHS users? :P:lol::wink:

 

And the same people no doubt wonder where their car tax gets spent. :shock::wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter, I am fortunate in that I have never needed the services of a hospital whether it be private or NHS, so apart from you constantly defending Tilly of which she seems more than capable of doing so herself, I am unsure as to what point you are trying to make. :?:?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wolfie,

I am pleased that you are in good health, but whilst it might look as if I am defending Tilly, (and yes she did get ganged up on), I feel that her whole post is being ignored as everyone jumps on her NHS comment.

 

Don't "you" think that we should know where are money is spent/wasted in halls of power?

If the people don't start to ask the questions, it gives those in office "carte-blanche" to do what they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While not trying to be accused of being 'one of the gang' I must support those posters who have zeroed in on the NHS comment.

 

Most posters and people generally would want to know where there taxes are being spent and on what, and I fully support that view, but Tilly quite clearly stated

PS - if I had a choice I'd like to opt out of the NHS and pay as I go

which as someone already stated is quite a selfish view in that it is ignoring the whole concept of the welfare state.

 

I am fortunate in that the company I work for provides Private Health Insurance, unfortunately conditions that I had previous to that employment are not covered and there is also a financial limit on any new conditions. Once that financial limit has been met I would then have to rely on the NHS who I would hope have not taken the decision to opt out of treating me. :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tilly only got "ganged up on " because she made a totally crass selfish statement.

It is a NATIONAL Health Service which despite it faults treats all people who are ill. Tilly would like to opt out until such time as she needs it and then opt back in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tilly only got "ganged up on " because she made a totally crass selfish statement.

It is a NATIONAL Health Service which despite it faults treats all people who are ill. Tilly would like to opt out until such time as she needs it and then opt back in.

 

Oh, yes, of course, read back, that is exactly NOT what I said. Any way as I said earlier I respect your views, values and comments just as much as you do mine, see y'all, you've all sooooo got your knickers in a twist about this, it's quite good fun watching / reading all your comments and you all getting worked up and arguing, whats the matter with you all, do you get like this in real life or just on the forum :wink::roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am reminded of work where the laziest people did the most shouting. Could it be that those shooting down Tilly are the biggest NHS users? :P:lol::wink:

 

And the same people no doubt wonder where their car tax gets spent. :shock::wink:

 

Love it :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What a mindless response, are you really as dim as you come across or are you just targetting me and knocking my posts for fun? ...........

 

Just remind us again who it is that's getting worked up :?:?:roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tilly only got "ganged up on " because she made a totally crass selfish statement.

It is a NATIONAL Health Service which despite it faults treats all people who are ill. Tilly would like to opt out until such time as she needs it and then opt back in.

 

I used to say exactly the same when I was working, as I was paying (to me) a fortune for something I didn't use. I was willing to pay insurance for healthcare.

 

What we should also remember that the money that is paid in now, isn't necessarily going to be used for the NHS.given that this G'ment if in power, could well privatise the NHS.

 

There was a comment earlier about it being available for the less well off. Yes, that is what it is supposed to be for, yet do you also agree that it's ok for people to come over here on "holiday" and have treatment at no cost from overseas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course I don't agree with foreign holiday makers coming over here and getting free treatment but it is nowt to do with the current 'debate'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course I don't agree with foreign holiday makers coming over here and getting free treatment but it is nowt to do with the current 'debate'.

 

Of course it is to do with the debate. Tilly started off by saying that we should know what our taxes are being used for!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Tilly did start off with commenting that we should know where our taxes are going but the thread had meandered away from that to a discussion on the NHS, Peter wished to narrow it down to the "foreigner issue" which I think was a red herring to protect Tilly from further hassle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes Tilly did start off with commenting that we should know where our taxes are going but the thread had meandered away from that to a discussion on the NHS, Peter wished to narrow it down to the "foreigner issue" which I think was a red herring to protect Tilly from further hassle.

 

Selective quoting Eagle?

 

At least you gave me a laugh re. the red herring. LOL

It was no such thing. It was pointing out that the NHS was for everyone entitled to and/or pays in to. An earlier comment suggested that the poor would be dis-enfranchised by people "opting" out.

the fact that people do come to this country to abuse the system must have a knock-on affect, and mean that the pot does not go as far.

PS. I don't do meandering on a Tuesday. :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am reminded of work where the laziest people did the most shouting. Could it be that those shooting down Tilly are the biggest NHS users?

 

Are you sure you are responding to the correct thread. What in the name of.....are you on about. Is it a puzzle where I have to rearrange the words to get the message.

 

Are ill people lazy in your view of the world. Ah...did you work in Human Resources counting sickies maybe? What is a big NHS user? Anyone who needs more care than your fortunate self maybe...next time I see a twitching net curtain I will give you a wave.

 

Shouting on a forum is indicated by caps anything else is discussion and opinion. That is why it is called a discussion forum otherwise we would not be discussing our opposing views and it would be called a keep your views to yourself forum.

 

If I am ILL I dont get paid....I cannot afford to be ill or lazy. So your theory is a bit leaky...sieve comes to mind :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...