observer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Notice the MP is calling for the employment of "local" labour on the Orford Park Project - fair enough in principle BUT: doesn't the law require a tendering process in which "non-local" firms are eligible to compete, and presumably "non-local" firms will employ "non-local" labour. And will this principle apply to all those involved in the project - will the Wolves be forced to employ "local" players, rather than Ozzy imports?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 They cannot stop whoever wins the contract employing labour from anywhere (European nonsense) Alsthom who are currently building a nuclear power station down south somewhere are using building contractors from Poland and Spain while local labour sits idle and unemployed. According to yesterdays express, some local guys who worked on other power station projects can't get work on the new plant because Alsthom are not using british labour on the building part of the project Workers in Grimsby face being laid off and replaced with Italian labour who will live in a floating hotel moored at the docks according to union officials. Under EU law, there is nothing to stop an employer paying workers less money to work in the UK; they do not need to be bound by our minimum wage rules if hired abroad.... so much for Browns "british jobs for british workers" nonsense.... time to go go go Gordon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 So basically, our MP is talking out of her a****! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 But it is a good sound bite to the few supporters she has left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Are we not discussing this on several other topics, I would reply here but I would only repeating my earlier victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Jack Hackett Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I assume with projects this size the companies are required by law to tender in accordance with the OJEU process. British firms get the same chance as anyone else, however if their tender returns are high or they cannot demonstrate the use of suitably qualified and experienced workforce, then they lose out. Use of Brit only supply would soon put many firms out of business. Projects undertaken in employment black spots and economic decline can get some dispensation via government intervention but that can be self destructive since firms are less likely to build in the declining areas if they are chained to an expensive and unskilled workforce. There is a much wider picture to consider than checking to see if potential employees have True-Brit stamped on their a**e. I must say I am at a loss as to how British firms get an edge on our European neighbours. And, if we do get the edge it will mean migration of our workers into Europe. I guess we will then get a right hammering on Warsaw Worldwide forum for nicking their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 It isn't just that, it is the fact that a Spanish company for example, can bid for a tender in say Britain. (Spains minimum wage is less than half that of the UK) They can bid and when they win, they can take on Spanish labour in Spain and ship them out to the UK to work. Because they were recruited in Spain, the company can pay them the minimum wage in Spain rather than the UK thus under cutting any UK based company by up to 50% on their labour bill straight away That bit needs sorting to block that loophole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Jack, the insanity of this new mobility, doesn't just involve global commuting; often, the cheapest tender could be another Town (say Chester), while a local firm could win a contract in Chester - result - the two gangs are passing each other on a congested M56 to do the same kind of work - totally illogical Captain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 So would you stop firms in Chester bidding for work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Seems "logical" to employ firms/workers closest to the point of work, on a priority basis - common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 And how would you stop monopolies developing, and make sure the people of Warrington end up paying a fair price, Why not let the market drive down price, your way has merits but I think you will find people start paying a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 But if people have the budget and don't mind paying a little extra for local labour; where is the harm in that? If you take your model a little further Lt, why can't I get say Salford council to bid for emptying my bin? Maybe not economical to do just mine; but a whole street, estate? Suddenly things start to look a bit different with "competion" because how daft would it appear if the next door council was emtying some of our bins? but we don't bat an eyelid when Mancunian painters or Liverpudlian electrians arrive to do jobs for our council paid for by local people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well put Baz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Jack Hackett Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Baz J Observer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 We'll have no trouble here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Jack Hackett Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Jack What?....they are local people We'll have no trouble here!! first series is in Virgin on demand. I forgot how funny it was. Back on topic. How local is local. I was born in Warrington, so were my Grandparents but before that...Ireland. Is that local enough to get me a job on the council or does the genetic contamination preclude my being considered as a local bin man. If Salford bin men do a better job at less cost then why not. How many local firms will refuse to do a job outside Warrington? It would be financial suicide. The arguments make no sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 The arguments make no sense at all Agreed You will find most company's will bid for work where ever, in this climate to get work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 No Jack - what makes "no sense at all", is a work gang from Warrington doing a job at Chester; and a work gang from Chester doing a job in Warrington (identical trades/work contracts); and passing each other on the M56 every morning - can you grasp that one?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Observer The only way a work gang from Chester would be working in Warrington is because the Warrington companies bid was to high, So the question you must ask yourself is, Was the Warrington company trying to rip off its customers by leaving its self exposed to another company doing the job at a lower price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Or, was the Chester Company undercutting the Warrington tender, on the basis of cheap labour and cutting corners on standards of work - you get what you pay for - and you clearly prefer the cheapest! Again, cos it doesn't seem to be penetrating your fixated view - is it logical for two work gangs to be passing each other on the M56? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Jack Hackett Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 can you grasp that one? I can. It is called a competitive business. How do you know the Chester guys are cheap and shoddy. I need some real examples here to "grasp" what you are getting at. If a companies tender process is so naff it deserves all it gets (usually in the form of expensive client claims). I can see your point if you are saying in the cuddly utopian world of the armchair businessman it is inefficient use of fuel and time but it is all captured in the end cost to the client and it is a perfectly acceptable situation. It also means that if the Chester guy makes a dogs dinner you can always ring the guy from Warrington the next time you need the job doing instead of being stuck with Chester the Cowboy. That has to be an option for any business or you get skinned alive and you pass the cost of that skinning on to your customers. You are also presuming that Warrington has all the right skills at the right price and in the shear quantity you need them.Try reading Steinbecks Grapes. It provides a vivid example of what prejudices can occur when a community shuts its doors on a workforce that does not have the same good fortunes as itself. It is ugly and pathetic and it plays right into the hands of the right wingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 So your happy to accept road congestion on the grounds of "competition" - sorry, I thought you might be able to think outside the box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 sorry, I thought you might be able to think outside the box I think you will find you are the one in the box, It is nice to know, That you only use local company's irrespective of there price on the grounds of congestion, I am glad you did not use global warming as an excuse Observer; Hello I would like a price for an extension please, all you need to fit my criteria is to have a Warrington phone number, I don't care about the price Builder; That will cost ?50,0000, I am the only builder in Warrington Observer; But I only wanted was a garage Think outside the box or should that be Warrington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Obviously your incapable thought outside your desire for the cheapest price for anything: their are a range of problems facing us, and many of these birds can be killed with one stone, if we re-think our economic/social arrangements. It wouldn't be too much of a strain on your thought processes, to consider the possibility of an "independent" Clerk of Works Service to price jobs on the basis of National pay rates, H&S, and best trade practises - thus both contractor and contracted would be assured of a "fair" price. Thus no need for unecessary journeys clogging our road systems etc. And while were on the subject; it might also help free up our road systems IF local labour were used in our local Council and other industries; thus saving 25,000 folk a day leaving Warrington to commute to work, while 25,000 enter the Town; many no doubt to do similar jobs. How many senior Council Staff for example actually live in the Borough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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