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Should the US bail out their auto-industry?

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Seems the CEOs of the big three US car manufacturers will be going cap in hand to Washington for a taxpayer's multi-billion dollar bail out; estimated to save 3 million jobs and a key sector of the US economy. :shock: Should Governments (more to the point taxpayers), be made responsible for sustaining "free" market enterprise? :?

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Yes, why not? it's their money!! :wink::wink::wink::wink:

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Understand that the Ford CEO has said that his company will sell the 5 :shock: private jets and that he will work for a $1 a year....having earned $50 million in the last two.

 

Wonder if the US Government does bail out the US car manufacturers, that that support will extend to their UK divisions. :wink:

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Should Governments (more to the point taxpayers), be made responsible for sustaining "free" market enterprise? :?

 

Guess unless they want to drive "cars" of the "quality" of Trabants, Ladas, Wartburgs and Moskovitchs, they will. :wink::D

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Should Governments (more to the point taxpayers), be made responsible for sustaining "free" market enterprise? :?

 

Guess unless they want to drive "cars" of the "quality" of Trabants, Ladas, Wartburgs and Moskovitchs, they will. :wink::D

 

Thats Observers 4 favourite cars right there Paul. They are on his "super cool" wall :wink:

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Well I think they are State owned manufactures too! :lol: Which is the point of the question: I just wondered how the "free marketeers" would respond to this nationalisation of convenience - seems politic principle and consistency are easily surrendered to expediency! :roll: And now, over here, it seems Brown's going to use tax-payer's money to rescue home buyers, who are defaulting on mortgages they obviously couldn't afford in the first place - must be relying on that middle-class vote! - again! :wink:

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I personally think that the car manufacturers should deal with this themselves - they have lazily ignored the need for better and more fuel efficient cars for a very long time. Let the big wigs lose their jobs and then - what ever happens happens! So not feel sorry for them - yes for the workers but hey - that is the way life is , right??

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And now, over here, it seems Brown's going to use tax-payer's money to rescue home buyers, who are defaulting on mortgages they obviously couldn't afford in the first place - must be relying on that middle-class vote! - again! :wink:

 

An interesting point, there was a chap on TV news saying that he had lost his job and was struggling with the mortgage, yet he could still afford to drive a nice car. Problem with falling interest rates is that it is helping many people who have been profligate, bought houses they can't afford, second homes in Spain, became by to let landlords etc etc and heavily penalises those who have been careful and put some money aside as savings and rely on the interest for day to day living.

 

With regards to car manufacturers, it would be interesting to know what if any support the Germans, Japanese, French, Italians & Koreans are giving their manufacturers

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On principle the govts should let the market re-align itself, thus weeding out the inefficiencies; in the case of the US car giants however, the sheer size of them plus the manufacturing & service industries they support would (will?) have a massive effect to the US economy & innumerable individuals will suffer. And as has been mentioned, these are multi-national with large manufacturing & supplier bases throughout the whole world, not least in E Port; any decisions in the US will have a large impact here as well.

 

Mary I don't think it's fair to blame them for their current misfortune. The problems with Ford & GM are both very historical (going back to the 70's - pensions & health care) & due to a sudden shift in US consumer attitudes away from the profitable SUVs. Both have been trying very hard for the past few years to get them back to a profitable status when all of a sudden we have the credit crunch

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So we can have "socialism" when it suits? :roll: If it's right to protect the "national" (social) interest in bad times, the principle should hold for the good times, when taxpayers would get a return on their investment. :wink: As for the housing market; why not allow the lenders to forclose on bad mortgages, but rent back the property, with the future option of "right to buy" when and if circumstances improve - but NOT using the tax money of the prudent to bail out the feckless. :evil::wink:

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Helping to keep certain industries trading which otherwise would have a catastrophic effect on the entire nation's economy, is not "socialism"; it's pragmatism. As for nationalisation of the car industry, well this country demonstarted in the 1970's that this is the best way to destroy the industry. No doubt Red Robbo is one of your heroes & the site of the Meriden Co-Op a pilgramige!

As for the housing suggestion, doesn't sound a bad idea

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Pragmatism? :? Perhaps another convenient word for expediency?! :roll: Now I can respect those free marketeers who say the market will rectify itself and refuse to condone any Government involvement - however misguided that may be. :shock: But to pick and choose one's political priciples to suit the pragmatism of the moment resembles the old having your cake and eating it! :roll: We now have a situation, where those that have been prudent and saved, and those that pay taxes aswell; are being asked to rescue those who have been personally feckless during a 10 year credit binge. :shock::wink:

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I do blame them - have been watching them choose not to compete for many many years - they made their own problems --- yes people will be hurt, but we are not a socialistic country. In the end my attitude will not stop the government from helping them and our national debt will be even higher along with inflation and unemployment.

 

As far as workers ---- its not like they have millions working for them - robots do many of the jobs that several people used to have. They retool at huge costs and have not thought very far ahead. They use company jets and high priced hotels for conferences, they put on elaborate shows, something has to give?? Maybe if I saw the executives willing to put their own money(millions) back into the companies I would have some sympathy.

 

If you had a business that pretty much had a monopoly for 70 yrs and then other companies started competing - would you not try to keep your share of the market - or would you ignore it?

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Do you have any idea how many other jobs have gone this year Observer? I have a masters degree of Education and cannot find a job within 30 miles of my home?

 

I do not think 3 million people will be without a job in the auto industry - but then who knows its been what, um 80 yrs since the last depression? :roll:

 

Seems like over a year ago I was talking about all of this coming to pass and people were telling me I was crazy - hate to be right but this will get much worse before it gets better.

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I think I heard the figure of around 500,000 jobs per month going down the pan at the moment; the auto sector however is considered a "key" element of the US economy; unlike the UK, where "production" was "let go" a while ago. :shock::cry:

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Seems auto-industries globally are taking the hit, and Governments will be tempted to bail them out. :shock: Now the UK no longer had a "British" car manufacturer, but it does have folk employed in making cars - so; will this Government sub the car makers to protect the jobs? :shock::?

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I have a masters degree of Education and cannot find a job within 30 miles of my home?

 

 

I was speaking to an engineer who has recently graduated from Cambridge with a Masters in Engineering, can't even get an interview. He made the comment that the only jobs going for engineers were in chocolate factories....and they were few and far between. A very sad sign of our times. :(

 

Talking of Cambridge, some years ago when I was in business, I recruited a young Malaysian with a Doctorate in Engineering from the University of Cambridge, absolutely superb.

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Stand technically corrected Paul; but isn't that a niche market?! :wink: My point being will foreign firms in the UK be bailed out by their home Nations or will the jobs be bailed out by the UK Gov? :? At this rate, we may see each State, nationalising everything, "in the National" interest! :wink:

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Just a thought on this topic: If the Government were telling us we need to use our cars less, drive smaller cars, use public transport more etc; in order to fight congestion and global warming: then why are they worried about keeping the car industry afloat? :?:wink:

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Sorry to correct you Observer, we do have Morgan...for those with eccentric tastes.....and deep pockets. :wink::)

 

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/

 

Morgan is just an overpriced kit car maker. About as much use on todays roads as a horse and cart.

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Just a thought on this topic: If the Government were telling us we need to use our cars less, drive smaller cars, use public transport more etc; in order to fight congestion and global warming: then why are they worried about keeping the car industry afloat? :?:wink:

 

It will probably have something to do with how many labour votes they would lose at the next election if they were all put on the dole. Woolworths was only 30000 voters so they now need to get on the side of the car industry to have a chance of their 80,000 votes (plus the supply workers etc)

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