Leave the UK or not?

[alana]

Now seeing how the Uk seems to be going with comments on the link immergration...

How many of you living in the UK would leave or wished they had?

And where would you like to be?

[wolfie]

Nah for all it's troubles, it's still the best place on Earth, although some parts of it are better than others

[Bazj]

I will definately be looking to leave at some stage in the future. I just don't like nor agree with whats happening in this country....

[alana]

Baz your thoughts are the same as a nephew of our who is looking at leaving and hopefully coming over here in computers.

Another nephew has gone to S.Africa and even for all the unrest there is enjoying life there.

I think maybe it is more the younger generation that are looking into leaving ....was just interested if the older generation wish they had left?

Baz hope you make you move a reality...

[observer]

Interesting question Alana: depends on one's station in life. However, restricted means, restricts mobility and choice; and the fact that most of the global poor are heading for the UK, could indicate that the grass ain't much greener elsewhere.

[Bazj]

Alana,

 

despite my dislike of immigration and such like (and yes I suppose it is a bit rich to bang on about immigration and then move abroad!!) My main problem here is the way society is heading. We have no discernable law and order.

 

The Police aren't interested unless there is a camera about or unless they can issue a fine for an offence, the courts hand out the most ridiculous sentences for the most heinous of crimes and yet give severe sentences to someone who steals money... makes no sense to me.

 

There is just a bad feeling to everything that appears in the papers or on the TV and the "nice" things in life just don't seem to be as abundant anymore....

 

Maybe I need a new direction or to get out of lifes rut!

[Bazj]

Originally posted by observer:

Interesting question Alana: depends on one's station in life. However, restricted means, restricts mobility and choice; and the fact that most of the global poor are heading for the UK, could indicate that the grass ain't much greener elsewhere.

Obs... if your observation is true and the global poor are all heading this way (which does seem to be the case because they never seem to stop anywhere between where they come from until they get to the UK do they?) maybe it IS a good idea to bugger off somewhere else? Me and my wife have discussed it...she works for an American backed firm and I'm sure I could get a job at Wal-Mart!

[observer]

Thought and thought about it Baz; even had the Atlas out looking for some tranquil upland; but everywhere one looks has similiar probs.

[Eddie]

There are armed conflicts or civil wars in over 100 countries around the world. There are drugs and social problems in every major city around the world

In Ireland, Judges have become so fed up with drunken youths causing mayhem in the early hours of the morning that they have started refusing late night bar extensions.

Teenage curfews have been widely used in the United States with little success in controlling the gang culture.

France's poor suburbs have become a battleground for police and youths.

There are 300 murders a year in Australia.

Personnaly I can't think of where I would emigrate to :confused:

[Legion]

I would be out like a shot given the opertunity.

however one thing that holds me back is a respect for the natural inhabbitants of the countries I would like to go, I wouldnt want them to think of me as somone sapping their resources.

[knightsamericancheer]

Baz,

 

Don't go to the US and don't work for Wal-Mart!!

 

I think some people here don't really understand how good they've got it.

 

Okay, so things are getting worse but-- news flash-- they are already that bad if not worse in the US!!

 

I'm an American, and while I'm not anti-American, I'm not really pro-US either. Let me tell you a little about what it was like to live in Virginia. Yes, Virginia-- not somewhere expensive like California, Florida, New York, etc...

 

1. I owned a gun and could shoot with deadly accuracy. I did not sell, or even do drugs. I worked in the medical field. Bottom line-- if someone breaks in your house they will shoot you. Kill or be killed is what a local detective told me. And by the way, I was held at gun point-- twice (once was at a gas station!!).

 

2. My husband and I rented a house with a room mate, because there was no way we could afford to buy. He worked 1 job at approximately 70 hours a week and I worked as a medical laboratory manager (40 hours per week) AND as an organ procurement technician (36 hours a week). And we still couldn't afford satelitte tv and broadband. We had electric, water, basic cable, basic telephone, and counted ourselves lucky. My mother currently pays for the priviledge of having water (actually paying for the hook up) in addition to her usage and service charges. Oh, and there's city taxes (sort of like Council Tax except everyone pays seperate-- not by household). My mom really gets hurt on this one. She lives in the township of Riverbend, within the town of New Bern, located in Craven County, so she pays taxes to all three.

 

3. From my full-time job at the lab, I brought home about $1500 per month after taxes (state taxes took about $250 each month and federal taxes took about $400). $500 of that went straight to my car-- payment, insurance, and gas. It wan't fancy either, just a Honda. But since there was no such thing as public transport or walking to work, it was neccessary. I also had to pay taxes (like VAT) when I purchased it, taxes every year based on it's value TO OWN IT, purchase a license plate every year to be able to drive it, have a state inspection every year (sort of like an MOT), and buy a city sticker every year-- get this-- to be allowed to PARK in my DRIVEWAY!

 

4. Before taxes were taken out, $250 of my salary per month went to health insurance. If I had to see my GP I had to pay an additional $20 at the appointment (or just don't go), a specialist cost $40 per appointment, and a trip to the emergency room was $75. That is all WITH health insurance. If you don't have health insurance, doctors can charge whatever they like (it isn't regulated) and the emergency room has the right to refuse your treatment. Oh, and because I needed treatment for infertility and it wasn't covered by my insurance, my doctor's office took a look at my finances and credit report before informing me that my husband and I could not afford the treatment neccessary to have children. Sorry about your luck!

 

4. As for working at Wal-Mart, you'll be lucky to make more than minnimum wage (which puts you just about on the poverty line). And welfare is really hard to get, even if you have kids. It isn't like here where as a citizen you are entitled and you just go sign on. Where we lived the cost of living was beyond extortionate. Our area had a military base and therefore a large number of military families. Every year, the military looks at the cost of living and adjusts their pay rates accordingly (not so that the troops are rich, just so no one can say they are at the poverty line). Just before they do that assessment, the price of land, houses, taxes, food, etc. rises. Why? Because the military will up the pay rate, of course those of us who aren't military don't get pay raises. Which reminds me-- I am a hard worker with a great deal of education and management experience and a pristine record. One year my pay raise was 3 cents per hour. That's right 3 pennies!!

 

5. Life in the US only seems cheap because: A. you visit Florida, New York, etc. cities who lower prices on the things tourists buy to suit tourists, and B. Every pound you bring magically becomes $2 when you arrive. It isn't so cheap when you are making dollars and paying the bills.

 

I look around at what the UK (especially Warrington) is coming to and yes, I'm depressed. That whole Sky news thing brought me to tears. But would I want to go back? No. I still feel safe walking home from the train station. I can out run a knife, I can't out run a bullet. And let's face it, random gun crime isn't bad here. Every morning we used to watch the news as we got ready for work and every morning there would be more shootings-- like 4 or 5 per town! What was most depressing was the rash of children killed in their beds by stray bullets from drive-bys that happened just before we left the US. I don't have to worry that when I wake up I'll find my son dead in his bed from a bullet.

 

I would like to see changes, but I don't think that things will get better if everyone turns and runs. We have to band together as a community and make the changes!

 

Again, I have to appologize for my long-winded reply. This means so much to me.

 

Christy

[Paul Kennedy]

Not.

 

That's leave the UK not in response to any particular post.

 

Did think about Western Australia (Perth) in 2004 though.

[Eddie]

Good post Christy.

 

Just to add one point. This February sees the 50th anniversary of the Munich air crash.

 

The newspapers on the day were filled with the story along with one other little snippet about girls 'binge drinking' in Oldham

[Paul Kennedy]

Originally posted by knightsamericancheer:

 

I think some people here don't really understand how good they've got it.

 

 

Christy

Referring to the UK I assume and I think you are right Christy.

[knightsamericancheer]

Yes. I was refering to the UK.

 

And about these kids binge drinking.

 

There's alot of disapproval of 'Pushy Parents in the US'. You know, the ones whose kids do every sport/dance/activity offered? I support those parents, my mom was one, in a few years I'll be one. A guy I used to work, Ron, with put it best. We worked at the lab together and I coached Ron's daughter in gymnastics and cheerleading. A group of us were standing having a chat in the lab when Ron asked me what his daughter's schedule was for the week. I told him that she had practices 4 days that week. Another guy we worked with comment on how he must be a taxi, and Ron said...

 

"Yeah, maybe, but you know what? I know where she is, who she's with, what she's doing, and what she's NOT doing 4 nights a week."

 

My mom taught me well. Her rule was that if I signed up for a sport, I did it for the entire term/year. If I hated it I could try something else after it finished. That way, not only did I stay active, I learned that you can't just quit when things get tough. If you join a team, they count on you and you don't let them down.

 

And, no, my school work didn't suffer. I still graduated with honors and the scores to go to medical school (sadly, without the money for med school). Also, 93% of American Cheerleaders ages 5-21 practice cheer at least 10 hours per week (not including time spent in student government, other school clubs, and dance/sports)and 83% of those have GPAs over 3.0.

 

My KAC cheerleaders practice 6 hours per week and have community service projects and fundraising events to attend as well. I encourage them to do well in school and to pursue higher education. In the future (with some community support, hopefully), I intend to award partial scholarships to those enrolling in degree programs.

 

Maybe if more kids had somewhere they had to be, they wouldn't be getting into so much trouble, they just wouldn't have time.

 

When my little one is old enough, I plan to enroll him in anything and everything that sparks his interests.

[Peter T]

The grass always looks greener!!!!

[Mary]

Good Posts Christy - I agree, but then I love England.

[little fella]

If I was younger I would 100% without any hesitation and I really really wish that I had done it 40 years ago even 10 years ago. Cyprus, Tenerife maybe Australia New Zealand.

 

I really do not like this country now for what it has gone like. Now that I am retired I do not consider it a good standard of living and it is not going to get better. Health care in the country under the NHS is poor, private is alright as long as I can carry on paying the bill. We may well move away from Warrington because this is not a good place to live, we have a few idea?s. Two of the family who are top business people are moving, one is going to the States for a three year contract, I don?t think that he will come back to England as he and the children can have a better life in Japan. The other wants to move to France to improve the children?s education and Standard of living he can work from home and fly to the UK for a couple days work.

[observer]

But the problem is; the PC Brigade are everywhere in Western societies; and in the third world you could catch a bullet or a machete.

[knightsamericancheer]

My husband lived in Japan for 4 1/2 years and he would love to go back. I think people are more lawful there because the laws are strict and definite. There's no such thing as letting someone choose or decide how you are punish, the punishment is already stated and you know that punishment even before you committ the crime. Plus punishment is harsher. But hey, the thought that my hand will (not may, will) be cut off if I steal would keep me from stealing.

 

I think that's part of where we go wrong with today's youth. As much as they may buck it, they need (and really do want) boundaries. They need to know 'if you do this, your punishment is this' unwaiveringly. Then if they decide to do it anyway, so be it. I think most act up just to test the boundaries and see what will happen. (That could describe a lot of the adult offenders as well, I think).

 

Punishment that is not definite and unchanging is confusing and often tempting. My mom adopted 2 girls from a bad home when I was in university. The youngest would get in trouble, be 'grounded' for a week, and then a day or so later, my mom would feel bad ('oh, but, they've had it so bad') and let her off of punishment. She always wondered why Bridget would go right back out and do it again. More than once I told her that I'd rob a bank if I only had to go to jail for 2 days and got to keep the spoils.

 

Then you look at some of these countries who have punishments like being shot in the street or having their hands chopped off and yeah, I'm sure they've had to use those punishments once or twice, but after that? Once the community knows that they will? I doubt there are too many offenders.

 

I'm not saying we need to start chopping off hands (well, maybe ), but the current consequences are obviously not working.

 

I vote we pack up all of these 'wanna-be gangsters' and send them over to somewhere like East LA or Chicago or anywhere that the real gangsters live. Make it a reality series if you like. I doubt they'd last long, probably either get shot (make sure they don't get killed of course) or come scurrying home. One things for certain, I bet they'd change their ways. Or institute a 'Scared Straight' program her like we have in the US. You take all of these youth offenders and send them to prison for a week or two. Supervised, of course. But generally the criminals scare the mess out of them and their attitude and behaviour changes real quick.

 

In Scarborough, we constantly had boys (who weren't on the team) showing up to cheer practice. The doors that we opened during the summer (because it got so hot) led right into the park and these boys would crowd around the doors to watch. I didn't mind that. Soon; however, they started yelling abuse at the girls.

 

That quickly escalated to throwing things at the girls. First rocks, then footballs, and most alarmingly big chunks of asphalt from the busted up road outside. Don't ask me why they did it, the girls certainly didn't speak to them after that. Anyway, it got quite dangerous. They were targeting the girls while the did stunts (lifting girls into the air), hitting the bases (girls holding) and flyers (girls in the air) to see if they could make them fall.

 

Obviously, I tried to run them off, but they just kept coming back. I finally resorted to calling the police. These boys were posing a significant risk to my girls safety. When the community police came, the boys heckled them, cursed at them, and stayed put. Because the police did not have the authority to do anything about their behavious-- and they knew it! Why do we have police to enforce the laws who aren't allowed to enforce the laws? Anyone?

 

I will admit, though, that I do dream of moving to a lovely little village in France. Just for the romance of it all. The more rural the better for me. My husband once talked about the possibility of moving to France and working in London and I still have my fingers crossed. Of course, realistically, I'm sure even rural France has it's problems. Oh well...

[observer]

Rural France is quite popular and may have something to do with the fact that it is less densily populated than the UK. Or maybe bird flu will sort things out?!

[knightsamericancheer]

You aren't gonna send me back, are you, Obs?

 

I married a UK citizen and before I had my son I worked in the NHS, oh, and I'm not eligible for 'public resources' aka benefits.

 

Can I stay? Please, please, please?

[observer]

I'll think about it !

[Paul Kennedy]

Originally posted by observer:

The ex-Pats in Spain are apparently being targeted by immigrants, who are robbing their houses

If the Spanish Government haven't demolished them for being built illegally on their equivalent of our Green Belt. Seems local government officials were on the take from unscrupulous developers.

 

[ 02.02.2008, 16:21: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

[rocky]

i think alot of people are gunners[going to do this and that]and make up so many excuses why they dont do it....if you are serious about emigrating you just apply and do it and face whatever comes...we emigrated to australia in 1992 we went homeless jobless and carless in one week...went to family so we werent pioneer migrants..were without furniture from november till april we had to lend bedding pots and pans when our stuff arrived it was like christmas...its had its ups and downs the same as any country would...i miss friends and family from warrington but not the place i have to say...my kids were 5 and 6 when they came here they are 20 and 21 so dont remember the things i did as a kid..totally different lives....a home is a home no matter where you live its the people in it that matter.....i went back to warrington in 2000 and after 3 weeks got homesick for australia...i hate the long haul flights ive done it 4 times and will probably do it again in the future,and for those of you who decide to emigrate it is only a plane ride away......