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Why was the Parr Hall item "Part 2" at the Executive Board last week? And seeing there are several suitable places where the Cavaille-Coll organ might go (Sheffield Cathedral being perhaps the most suitable), and the Council's already decided it has to go somewhere, did the Board bottle out of a decision?

 

(If they start refurbishments next summer with the organ still in place, that's likely to ruin it wherever it goes.)

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Sheffield Chathedral apparently have the funds available to pay the ?1 million price tag to buy it etc so perhaps it will be better of there where it will actually be wanted and treasured :?:roll: .

 

Guess that means WBC will only have to actually find ?200k for the Parr Hall refurbishment :wink::?

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Think there are on going discussions with local groups as to its future. It might be that if a decision was made before those discussions are completed then the decision could be called in.

 

From what I can tell, sad as it will be to lose it from Warrington, it seems Sheffield Cathedral will be a better home for it. When was it last played?

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Sheffield Chathedral apparently have the funds available to pay the ?1 million price tag to buy it etc so perhaps it will be better of there where it will actually be wanted and treasured :?:roll: .

 

Guess that means WBC will only have to actually find ?200k for the Parr Hall refurbishment :wink::?

 

Maybe the cost of dismantling and transporting it etc costs the million, not a payment to WBC. :wink:

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Sheffield Chathedral apparently have the funds available to pay the ?1 million price tag to buy it etc so perhaps it will be better of there where it will actually be wanted and treasured :?:roll: .

 

Guess that means WBC will only have to actually find ?200k for the Parr Hall refurbishment :wink::?

 

Maybe the cost of dismantling and transporting it etc costs the million, not a payment to WBC. :wink:

 

Just stating what another Borough Councillor (who has been involved in the discussions) said recently Paul :wink:

 

And I quote

The ?1.2m refurbishment DEPENDS on the SALE of the organ
:? blah blah blah :wink:

 

In a way it's even worse if what you say is true Paul as that means the council are just giving away a trully unique piece of heritage because it's 'in the way' :shock:

 

Question... as the Parr Hall is listed and the organ is in the listing schedule are they allowed to just remove it ?

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So I guess "organ transplants" can be expensive operations?! :wink:

 

:lol::lol::lol::wink::P You're getting as witty as Wingnut Obs :lol:

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Perhaps an organ recital every evening at the Parr Hall? :? Sure it would be packed out! :roll: Or perhaps the organ could be transfered to the "Arts Centre", sure they'll be queuing round the block?! :roll::wink:

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Ok sentiment out of the window and sense in (for one night only :P ).

 

Sheffield Cathedral had a pipe organ (built by by N. P. Mander Ltd of London c1966) but it was decomissioned in 1998 after it was found that the organ needed major to keep it in good working order. (similar sotry to the Parr Hall's then :wink: ) So.... their organ was replaced with a digital organ by a company called Phonex Organs until a suitable replacement pipe organ could be found. (Guess that's the Parr Halls :wink: )

 

The current digital organ recently underwent significant modifications (by Phoenix) to upgrade it to meet the Cathedral's fuller needs as they waited for the commissioning of their first-class pipe organ. This work apparently really enhanced the instrument?s capabilities.

 

Anyway, I'm babbling....

 

Sheffield Cathedral is a beatifull building and it is undergoing renovation and fundraising (including that of raising money for an organ :wink: ) and as much as it hurts me to say it... is probably far more fitting location for the unique organ than Warrington's Parr Hall is.

 

Perhaps Sheffield Cathedral and Warrington Parr Hall could do a swap and WE could have their suped up newer digital type organ so that organ recitles and choirs could still have access to a suitable organ in the Parr Hall when they need it. A sort of compromise after all if their digi has been good enough to be in a Cathedral it can't be that bad :wink:

 

Personally I'm not into choirs and organ recitles as I prefer loud live bands with guitars, drums and fancy all singing keyboards with effects but the love of our heritage sometimes gets in my way :lol:

 

However.... if Sheffield does have it then WBC should attach 'conditions' which say they can't sell it on and have to maintain it to a very standard that will ensure it's survival for many many years to come. :wink:

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I'm disappointed, Dismayed, to hear of your preference for guitars and drums, but encouraged by your recognition that heritage is also important.

 

What I find puzzling is why, more than 80 years ago, when Warrington was very much a clothcap town inhabited by people who had never had the opportunity of a proper education and thus appreciating the finer things, the council decided to install this fine organ.

Now, when we are told Warrington has shaken off its clothcap image and is a hi-tech town, full of highly educated professionals, we are prepared to give the organ away. Because that IS what it amounts to.

The ?1 million is the cost of moving it to Sheffield.

 

Bit disappointing also to have to accept that the Tykes may be a more cultured bunch than us!

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Sheffield is a high tech city, with many well educated people and two Universities....well one plus a former Polytechnic, so they are probably at least as well cultured as Warrington.....but thinking about it as I'm no longer there and am here, Warrington might just have the edge :wink::):D:D

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Perhaps an organ recital every evening at the Parr Hall? :? Sure it would be packed out! :roll: Or perhaps the organ could be transfered to the "Arts Centre", sure they'll be queuing round the block?! :roll::wink:

 

:wink::)

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What I find puzzling is why, more than 80 years ago, when Warrington was very much a clothcap town inhabited by people who had never had the opportunity of a proper education and thus appreciating the finer things, the council decided to install this fine organ.

Maybe it was their version of our councils waste of money; the skittles!

 

 

The ?1 million is the cost of moving it to Sheffield.

 

I have access to a van.... I'll do it for half that!

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You'll have to take it via France (it's home land) for a bit of restoration work apparently :wink: Would be funny if the French confiscated 'their' heritage on it's travels eh :shock:

 

Anyway France is far nicer than here so can we all come in your van too :D

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It's a musical instrument. The Parr Hall got it third hand. Most people in Warrington have never heard it played. It's hardly part of Warrington heritage. Sheffield had their own Cavaille-Coll organ (the largest built for Britain) in the Albert Hall (now demolished, don't know where the organ went) so it would be restoring Sheffield's heritage.

 

And yes, it's in the way at the Parr Hall - to the extent that remodeling the hall depends on its removal, and remodeling the Hall for wider use is only way to stop it being a constant drain on resources (leading to its closure, leading to needing a new home for the organ...)

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Once they remove the unique/historic organ perhaps they should just sell the whole Parr Hall building and it's land to a developer who can knock it down and build some affordable high rise flats or cafe bars instead. :roll:

 

Talking about constant drains on people's resources and things being in the way ....they might as well knock the Town Hall and Downing Street down while they are at it :wink:

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I got an email from Number 10 today :shock: It was the Prime Ministers (Office :wink: ) response to an E-Petition that was created to help save the Parr Halls historic Cavaill?-Coll organ. I signed it at the time after the link was posted on here.

 

The prime ministers response is as follows for anyone who is remotely interested.

 

Read the Government?s response

The decision whether to move the Cavaille-Coll Organ is one for Warrington Council, owners of Parr Hall. However, English Heritage ? the Government?s adviser on the historic environment ? has advised the Council that the organ should not be moved without listed building consent, and that they should take the community?s views into account, including those expressed in this petition, in deciding the best course of action.

 

English Heritage has further advised that the advantages and disadvantages of moving the organ are finely balanced. On the one hand it was moved twice previously, before being added to Parr Hall some time after its original construction, and there are questions over whether the organ itself might be better used in an alternative location, whilst also allowing more flexibility in the use of Parr Hall. On the other hand, the value which existing users of the hall attach to the organ and its significance in relation to performances, including a longstanding tradition of choral music, is well demonstrated by this petition and many other representations. It will be for the Council to determine the best way forward, taking all these views into account.

 

:? which means what exactly :lol::roll:

 

I personally can't see the point of all these e-petitions on the the governments website (www.number10.gov.uk) as number 10's replies always seem to be 'somewhere in the middle'.

 

Interestingly though the top current petition is one which simply says 'We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to RESIGN..

It currently has 72,052 signatures but that is probably becasue not many people are aware of it :wink: People have until 22 Oct to sign :lol:

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it now has 72,053!!

 

With regards to the Parr Hall organ, you do realise that by saying that it is the councils decision and going on their disgraceful past treatment of this towns heritage; especially if there is a fast buck to be made, it will not be in the Parr Hall by this time next year

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There are no fast bucks to be made in renovating organs.

 

"English Heritage ? the Government?s adviser on the historic environment ? has advised the Council that the organ should not be moved without listed building consent"

 

Interesting advice - organs are protected if they are deemed to be fixtures in a listed building, each case being determined on its merits. Even if it is declared to be a fixture then whether or not its alteration or removal will need listed building consent depends on whether the works will affect the character of the building as a building of special interest or historic interest. I think WBC might argue that it's not a fixture (the weight of it presumably enough to hold it in place) and that (as it's not original) removing it would not affect the character of the building. However in a case where the planning authority is the applicant, I guess they'd accept the EH advice. They'll need l.b. consent anyway for other behind-the-scenes alterations.

 

The main problem may be whether the organ will actually fit in the designated space at Sheffield Cathedral.

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There are no fast bucks to be made in renovating organs.

 

"English Heritage ? the Government?s adviser on the historic environment ? has advised the Council that the organ should not be moved without listed building consent"

 

Interesting advice - organs are protected if they are deemed to be fixtures in a listed building, each case being determined on its merits. Even if it is declared to be a fixture then whether or not its alteration or removal will need listed building consent depends on whether the works will affect the character of the building as a building of special interest or historic interest. I think WBC might argue that it's not a fixture (the weight of it presumably enough to hold it in place) and that (as it's not original) removing it would not affect the character of the building. However in a case where the planning authority is the applicant, I guess they'd accept the EH advice. They'll need l.b. consent anyway for other behind-the-scenes alterations.

 

The main problem may be whether the organ will actually fit in the designated space at Sheffield Cathedral.

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Once they remove the unique/historic organ perhaps they should just sell the whole Parr Hall building and it's land to a developer who can knock it down and build some affordable high rise flats or cafe bars instead. :roll:

:

 

hehehe the pipes would come in handy for the plumbing!!

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Ian Tracey will give a Recital on the 1870 Cavaille-Coll Organ in the Parr Hall on Wednesday, 12th March, 2014.

The last Recital on this organ was 17th June, 2011 when we celebrated the Bi-Centenary of the Birth of Aristide Cavaille-Coll.

On that occasion Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders played for us.

We await advertising material from Culture Warrington.

The Recital next March will be a wonderful opportunity to hear the Cavaille-Coll Organ again.

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