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Egbert

Titan prison meeting tonight

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So I wonder how long the borough council meeting will last tonight, discussing the so-called Titan Prison threat to the town?

We will have three political parties, who all know full well the prison isn't coming to Warrington, all opposing it fiercely so that later on they can claim it was them that stopped it.

Then no doubt the media will report it at length because it gives them something to write about.

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For the record I have just read in the November edition of the Warrington Chamber of Commerce magazine "Insight" that the Chief Executive Colin Daniels has spoken to the Borough Council and Miller Developments regarding the possibility of a Titan prison development and it was confirmed to him the development would not be taking place! :roll:

If this is the case could someone please explain why there is a public meeting taking place at the Parr Hall tonight?

Surely Egberts comments that it is purely for political gain by the local political parties can not be correct.

Surely our politicans must be as well informed as the Chamber of Commerce?

Can we please have everyone singing from the same hymn sheet?

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Well if what Egbert and Gary says is true (I have no reason to doubt what the say) then the fact that people have been forced to worry needlessly, object, write letters to the press, hold meetings and demonstrations and tonight attend a meeting which is not needed...........is absolutely pathetic !!

 

Would be intersting to know just how many of the Councillors, MP's etc etc etc already knew this :?

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It was the normal Council meeting, with two motions about Titan - one from the ruling Lib Dem/Tory group and one from Labour.

 

The Lib Dem/Tory one included references to "the Government's proposal", and was calling on the town's MPs to vote against such a proposal. But as it was worded as against Titan-style prisons, and the Labour government seems to want 3 such prisons (one in the north-west) the Labour group had to abstain on it - after a bit of the usual politicking - (no coincidence that it was the Lib Dem parliamentary candidate for Warrington South who was put up to propose it).

 

The resident who'd earlier asked a question about the future of Omega then (out of order) said she was disgusted by the party politicking. She walked out, followed by most of the audience - most of whom didn't know (or care) that the Labour motion was still to be debated. Neither motion had been printed out for the public.

 

The Labour group then proposed their motion, which praised the MPs for opposing a Titan prison in Warrington, and criticised the Lib Dem / Tory leadership for having a private meeting with developers and not killing the idea stone dead. The deputy leader said he'd not been at any meeting, and the leader said it was just a regular meeting about the future of Omega.

 

Anyway, Labour then asked if they withdrew their motion (which would be voted down) whether there could be an emergency resolution without the party politics just opposing Titan in Warrington; this was ruled out of order (not an emergency) but (by general agreement) Labour's motion was amended to take out most of it, and leave just the recognition that there is need for further prison building, but opposing any proposal for a new prison in Warrington. This was then carried nem com (one councillor on the development control committee abstained, not wanting to prejudice their position if it ever came to committee).

 

Pity that, having walked out in disgust at the party politics, most of the public missed the unanimous resolution opposing Titan!

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Vic,

 

party politics is what is destroying local government.... we should have independant elected councillors who do what is good for the town. Not ones who do what is good to follow the party line and what is good for themselves.

 

Stuff and nonsense the lot of it

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I too was at the meeting last night and what a fantastic insight into local politics.

 

I back up most of what Vic said above except it was only about half the audience left in disgust after the initial vote.

 

Those of us who remained witnessed what could only be described as a desperate public relations damage limitation exercise with most council members who spoke agonising about how the public and (more importantly), the press would view the events of the evening. Thankfully they were forced to see sense but I supect it was the audience present who were responsible for the change of mind.

 

I agree with the other comment about councillors being idependant from political parties. How much time be wasted , (at the taxpayers expense), if all council meetings are like this.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the way I now understand the situation as of last night with respect to our two MPs is as follows:

 

It appears that both our Warrington MPs, (Helen Jones and Helen Southworth), are very unlikely to vote against the Omega Titan Prison in Parliment, one because she is a party whip, (as of beginning of October), so she would have to resign from the government to do so and the other has never rebelled against the government to date. So our two elected representatives in Parliament will be effectively useless in the fight against Titan on Omega. What as waste of space??.

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Alas Baz, having stood as an Independent myself....and getting nowhere, the party option was the only option. Despite what you might think, when push comes to shove the majority of people who vote, vote along party lines or in the case of the L/Ds vote for them because they are not the other two.

 

With regards to last night, I simply make the comment that those people with Parlimentary aspirations should not use the Council of which I am a Member, and proud and honoured to be so, as a political platform. As I recall in the run up to the 2005 General Election, Cllrs Bruce, Marks and Walker did not exploit their Member status in order to benefit their Parliamentary candidacy.

 

Frankly I am very annoyed and somewhat ashamed with what happened last night, and I apologise to those residents who made the time and effort to attend the meeting and who felt and indeed were let down. I know a number of other Councillors.....from all parties, feel exactly the same.

 

I had prepared in advance an Amendment Motion fearing a political battle between the two largest parties in the Town Hall:

 

That the Government is advised that this Council:- Will totally reject any proposal to build a Titan prison on the Omega site or anwhere else in Warrington.

 

Alas the opportunity to propose it did not present itself, and I really don't understand why Cllr Crotty could not have proposed such a simple and to the point Motion herself instead of the one that she did.

 

The Labour group, in fairness to them, were astute enough to amend their Motion, although it beggars belief why they put forward their original Motion in the first place.

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Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the way I now understand the situation as of last night with respect to our two MPs is as follows:

 

It appears that both our Warrington MPs, (Helen Jones and Helen Southworth), are very unlikely to vote against the Omega Titan Prison in Parliment, one because she is a party whip, (as of beginning of October), so she would have to resign from the government to do so and the other has never rebelled against the government to date. So our two elected representatives in Parliament will be effectively useless in the fight against Titan on Omega. What as waste of space??.

 

But there would be no vote on such a matter in Parliament.

 

It is true that those holding a Government position such as a Whip would be expected to vote with the Government....or face the consequences!

 

Frankly I would be simply amazed if a proposal to build a Titan prison on Omega ever sees the light of day.

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How much time be wasted , (at the taxpayers expense), if all council meetings are like this.

 

 

There are only 6 Full Council meetings each year, for the rest of the time Councillors work together on Committees and working groups etc., and do so in a fair degree of harmony and in my experience putting aside Party allegiances.

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Unfortunately, in the politics of democracy, electioneering goes on 24/7: their reason for being IS to get elected: unfortunately, their capacity for decision making based on any set of principles is lost in their fear of the mob - who unfortunately tend to be extremely fickle. :wink:

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A lot of the motions to Council from the Lib Dem / Tory alliance include some reference to the two MPs, criticising them or demanding they do something (even on stuff which is not remotely a Parliamentary matter). It simply means that the Labour group cannot support that motion even if they agree with the substance of it (as last night). If you don't like it, Paul, get your leader to rein in the Lib Dems' electioneering.

 

Plus neither group knows what the others' motion will be, so they work "blind" to some extent. On issues like this, perhaps they should have some "compositing" meeting where a unanimously acceptable resolution can be cobbled together.

 

The trouble with non-party politics is that when you vote for an "independent", you often have no idea how they're likely to vote on particular issues.

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Just to clarify, Motion 1 was a L/D Motion and Motion 2 was a Labour Motion. The Conservatives did not put forward a Titan Motion.

 

With regards to reining in, guess it is a question of where the power lies within the L/D group. :wink:

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Alas Baz, having stood as an Independent myself....and getting nowhere, the party option was the only option..

 

Because Paul that is the only option. I have seen some of the petty mindedness of some councillors; both past and present such as the former Labour leader who seemed more determined to destroy his own party because of what he saw it had done to him (allegedly!)

 

It is a pile of nonsense to think that the current system; that only seems to breed fighting and arguments can be the best way.

 

Alas the opportunity to propose it did not present itself, and I really don't understand why Cllr Crotty could not have proposed such a simple and to the point Motion herself instead of the one that she did.

 

Probably because she has asperations to be a Lib Dem MP and was parachuted into Bewsey from her home in the Midlands to further those ambitions.... allegedly!

 

The Labour group, in fairness to them, were astute enough to amend their Motion, although it beggars belief why they put forward their original Motion in the first place.

 

More party back biting me sees!!

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Er, so why didn't the Conservative group put forward an anti-Titan motion?

 

We didn't...unless I've missed something. :?

 

Thats what he said.... he was asking why you didn't!! :lol:

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So despite the fact that it was actually refused (although after the usual battle of the parties and wasted meeting time over the usual political codswolop...) it seems from all the subsequent postings that it's still political then :wink:

 

At least the council members are hopefully now aware of how ridiculous their political point scoring attitudes make them look to the members of the public who attend some of their meetings :wink:

 

Been there, seen it for myslef and I hope they will finally stop it now :wink:

 

So two successes in one night maybe :D:wink:

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I had a chuckle at the news item about the apology.

 

 

Bland was placed at a meeting he did not attend, O'Neill did attend but apologised to Bland because he had been misinformed that Bland was there. :roll:

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No Beaky - it wasn't quite as bad as that. O'Neill WASN'T at the meeting.

He just thought Bland was and spread it far and wide.

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Not too bad, thanks. Not exactly happy with it, but wouldn't fancy going under the knife to have it made any better.

After all, it never was the most shapely of beaks.

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