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PJ, not for the first time you resort to abuse when someone disagrees with you. On Capital punishment I agree with Baz and therefore disagree with Paul but if it was vice versa I would still allow both to debate without insulting either of then. Extremes of opinion will always appear when such an emotive subject is discussed but abuse is not necessary.

 

It is one thing to exchange banter in such things as the Man U/Liverpool debates but not when a very serious subject is being discussed.

 

BTW, I also disagree with Lt Kije but that is par for the course and we have also exchanged insults but only on lighthearted threads.

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I am completely against capital punishment :!::!::!:

 

Justice is not another word for revenge :!::!::!:

 

So someone who kills your wife or your child should be punished by a derisory 11 years in jail such was the case with the man who killed my first wife? Not 11 years in a category A jail but 4 years in a category A jail and the remainder in lower category jails culminating in a category C prison from where he took a shine to a lady prison visitor, befriended her and went on a day trip out with her at the end of which he strangled her and caved her head in with a brick. She had two young children and was what I would class as a doo-gooder; someone who visits those in jail who have no family or friends.

 

My wife had a 2 year old son when she was killed and both he and she and me too were denied everything that followed from that day until the day my son himself dies. There is only one answer chaps and I am afraid it is to terminate the lives of those callous and calculating enough to take the life of someone else.

 

As for miscarriages of justice Paul, yes there have been a few; but compare that with the number of murderers that are let out on license and then go and kill again. You also have to counter the fact that forensic science is almost infalable these days and I am sure that the accused could have their usual 20 appeals before the rope. Just look at the scum that is infesting the streets these days. The weasel that killed the Newlove chap, the scum that killed the headteacher outside his own school a few years ago (He was a foreigner with no legal right to stay here and they still won't send him back to his own country when he gets out because he may get tortured and that abuses his human rights!!!) You really couln't make this nonsense up!

 

Our politicians are total hypocrites when it comes to using this as an excuse for not bringing back capital punishment as they are the ones who will quite easily vote to send our troops or support other counties who send troops to bomb and shell a country such as Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan and even Gaza knowing full well that at the other end of that shells flight path are scores of innocents.

 

The answer to capital crime is in capital punishment because at the moment we have a generation of people - mainly young and disadvantaged (which means they only have one plasma, sky plus and a PS3) who have no respect for anyone or anything in authority. Labour have created these people but the Tories and Lib Dems have no answer to them. They need stopping and they need disciplining and punishing when required and the punishment should be harsh. The old "Short Sharp Shock" would be good but with Long replacing Short! Keep them off the streets for as long as possible and in many cases that means forever..... and if forever, why keep them at all?

 

I know that this always promotes conversation, but I still cannot bring myself to see this any other way and I have felt like this all my life; not just after what happened 20 years ago.

 

I remember when the Gang of Four were in Warrington; when Roy Jenkins was standing as a candidate for Warrington in 1981. It was a sunny day in Bewsey and I was a mere slip of a lad of 17 or so and was outside my house, watching my dad wash his gleaming black Ford Granada (He was the Chauffeur at Crosfields)

 

Out of nowhere, this chap came up and asked my dad if he would be voting for Mr Jenkins (who was further down the street making his way towards us) "Does Mr Jenkins believe in capital punishment" asked my dad.......... you would have thought my dad had asked the bloke to drop his pants and whistle dixie! He went bright red and got all flustered and blurted out to another man across the street who was also softening up the potential hand shakers for Jenkins...... "this man wants to know if Mr Jenkins believes in capital punishment".... turning to my dad, he said " He most certainly doesn't"....... "well don't bring him here to shake my hand then young man, or I'll slap him with it..... now bugger off" always straight to the point was my dad!

 

Mr Jenkins never did get as far as our house, as a car picked him up halfway down the avenue!! Shame really :twisted:

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PJ, alas there are those who know that they are beaten in an argument revert to personal attack, as you have done.

 

Think yourself lucky, it could have been your wife :wink:

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Justice is not another word for revenge
I read the amnesty international website too you know!!

 

Please show me an example of justice in this country Kije....... I bet you can't.

 

Jailing someone for life and then freeing them after 10 years.............is not justice

 

Freeing criminals early to make way for people who don't pay their poll tax...... is not justice.

 

Aquiting a man in the dock because the main witness against him is a pretty girl that the judge thinks may be believed more than the accused.... is not justice

 

Show me an example (or maybe two) where the perpetrators of a heinous or obscene crime have been sentenced in accordance to their crimes and the victims have had justice....

 

A lot of victims of crime don't want revenge they want justice and they don't get it in this country.

 

Personally I want revenge for what happened to me and my family; 20 years later I still want revenge but I will never get it because he is protected, sheltered, fed and cared for by my tax money.... do you know how comforting that is?

 

Thought not

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Baz as ever you are a joke :!::!:

 

Labour have created these people :!::!: what a joke, I forgot no one got murdered when the Tories were in power, we all lived happily ever after :!::!::!:

 

The Tories were in power when the Yorkshire ripper was about, are they to blame, I think not :!::!::!:

 

As Eagle said this is a very emotive topic, posting crap does not help

 

:!:

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Baz as ever you are a joke :!::!:

 

Labour have created these people :!::!: what a joke, I forgot no one got murdered when the Tories were in power, we all lived happily ever after :!::!::!:

 

The Tories were in power when the Yorkshire ripper was about, are they to blame, I think not :!::!::!:

 

As Eagle said this is a very emotive topic, posting crap does not help

 

:!:

 

Did I say no one was murdered when the Tories were in power?.... nope.

 

answer my question and stop trying to weadle out of it.

 

SHOW ME AN EXAMPLE OF JUSTICE IN THIS COUNTRY

 

And name calling is so crass you know. why not just ask me to meet you behind the bike sheds instead?

 

and as for you last statement; I know posting crap doesn't help, but if you would just answer my question you won't have to any more will you?

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Baz as ever you are a joke :!::!:

 

As Eagle said this is a very emotive topic, posting crap does not help

 

:!:

 

Lt Kije or whatever your name is.

There is absolutely NO need for these comments.

Perhaps YOU should read what Baz has posted, and recognise that he has "personal" experience and has posted that.

 

IF you are unable to post without calling him, I suggest that you don't bother posting.

Peter. Admin. :twisted::evil:

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Peter

 

Yes I should have put his last post blaming societies woes on labour was a joke, I will strive to be more accurate in the future :!:

 

Life isn't fair, but strive to find a balance. your words not mine, other people have been insulting on here yet you say nothing, I think you should strive for balance

 

Baz If you were insulted I apologise

 

I will not post again on this topic :!:

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Lt Kije

 

I wasn't insulted so no need for an apology; what happened to me was a long time ago.

 

Things have got a little heated on this subject, but if you just admit you were wrong we can leave it there!! :lol: (I was only joking!!)

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Whilst I don't agee with capital punishement; the Prison regime in this Country is a joke: it seems self evident that we have people "with attitude" entering prison and coming out with an even worse "attitude"; this could be corrected quite simply by the application of carrots and sticks within prison (as with Pavlov's dogs) to re-condition offenders absolutely. :shock::wink:

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PJ, not for the first time you resort to abuse when someone disagrees with you. On Capital punishment I agree with Baz and therefore disagree with Paul but if it was vice versa I would still allow both to debate without insulting either of then. Extremes of opinion will always appear when such an emotive subject is discussed but abuse is not necessary.

 

It is one thing to exchange banter in such things as the Man U/Liverpool debates but not when a very serious subject is being discussed.

 

BTW, I also disagree with Lt Kije but that is par for the course and we have also exchanged insults but only on lighthearted threads.

 

The bloke is a troll who's sole purpose is to bait and insult other forum members :evil::evil::roll:

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Here's one to get you going from The Daily Mail

 

"When father-of-three Peter Drummond discovered a drug dealer had sold heroin to his family he decided to take matters into his own hands.

 

He stormed into pusher John Nellies' home and confronted him before flushing five of the dealer's bags of heroin down the toilet.

 

But it was Drummond - not Nellies - who found himself in court today facing a sheriff, who jailed him for his actions."

 

Unbelieveable :x

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Cut and pasted the following...only in the US could the following happen....maybe not :wink: :

 

It's time again for the annual 'Stella Awards'! For those unfamiliar with these awards, they are named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued the McDonald's in New Mexico where she purchased the coffee. She took the lid off the coffee and put it between her knees while she was driving.

 

Here are the Stella's for the past year:

 

7TH PLACE:

 

Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The store owners were understandably surprised by the verdict, considering the running toddler was her own son.

 

6TH PLACE:

 

Carl Truman, 19, of Los Angeles, California won $74,000 plus medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hub caps.

 

 

5TH PLACE:

 

Terrence Dickson, of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just burglarized by way of the garage. Unfortunately for Dickson, the automatic garage door opener malfunctioned and he could not get the garage door to open. Worse, he couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the garage to the house locked when Dickson pulled it shut. Forced to sit for eight, count 'em, EIGHT, days on a case of Pepsi and a large bag of dry dog food, he sued the home-owner's insurance company claiming undue mental Anguish. Amazingly, the jury said the insurance company must pay Dickson $500,000 for his anguish.

 

4TH PLACE:

 

Jerry Williams, of Little Rock, Arkansas, garnered 4th Place in the Stella's when he was awarded $14,500 plus medical expenses after being bitten on the butt by his next door neighbor's beagle - even though the beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. Williams did not get as much as he asked for because the jury believed the beagle might have been provoked at the time of the butt bite because Williams had climbed over the fence into the yard and repeatedly shot the dog with a pellet gun.

 

.

 

3RD PLACE:

 

Third place goes to Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania because a jury ordered a Philadelphia restaurant to pay her $113, 500 after she slipped on a spilled soft drink and broke her tailbone. The reason the soft drink was on the floor: Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.

 

 

 

2ND PLACE:

 

Kara Walton, of Claymont, Delaware sued the owner of a night club in a nearby city because she fell from the bathroom window to the floor, knocking out her two front teeth. Even though Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the ladies room window to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge, the jury said the night club had to pay her $12,000

 

1ST PLACE:

 

This year's runaway First Place Stella Award winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski, of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, who purchased a new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home from an OU football game, having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver's seat to go to the back of the Winnebago to make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the motor home left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Also not surprisingly, Mrs. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not putting in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually leave the driver's seat while the cruise control was set. The Oklahoma jury awarded her, are you sitting down, $1,750,000 PLUS a new motor home. Winnebago actually changed their manuals as a result of this suit, just in case Mrs. Grazinski has any relatives who might also buy a motor home.

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The stupidity of these people is only exceeded by the stupidity of the courts who award the damages. You couldn't make it up!! :shock::shock:

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Daily Telegraph:

 

Britain 'nation of form fillers watched by quarter of world's CCTV cameras'

 

Britain has become a bureaucratic and authoritarian state watched over by a quarter of the world's CCTV cameras, a study of Labour's decade in power claims.

 

National debt is running at ?175,000 per household, five times more than thought, while each year the Government has passed 3,500 regulations, along with 100,000 pages of rules and explanation.

 

'The Rotten State of Britain' claims to be the first "deeply researched factual account" of Tony Blair's and Gordon Brown's time in office.

 

The author Eammon Butler, a director of the leading think tank the Adam Smith Institute, claimed that his book had been turned down by two publishers because of the "unconventional" nature of the content.

 

He said: "A new form of centralised government and authoritarian government has been created that is worse than ever in Britain's recent history."

 

Among the claims in the book are that Britain has a quarter of the world's CCTV cameras, the largest of any country and that taxes have risen by 51 per cent since 1997.

 

Mr Butler also claims national debt is running at ?4.6 billion, or ?175,000 per household, not ?729 billion (?29,000 per household) as the Government claims.

 

In the audit of 10 years of the Labour Government, Dr Butler says that there are now 1,406 litter wardens and dog catchers who have been given powers to levy on the spot fines.

 

Dr Butler said he wrote the book because he got "so angry about the way that they have no concept of the rule of law".

 

Dr Butler found that in just one year ? 2006/7 ? half of the 722,464 DNA samples collected by the police came from children, including a seven-month year old girl.

 

One in nine hospital patients picks up an infection during their stay on a ward, while the total cost of outstanding claims against the NHS is ?9.2 billion, Dr Butler claimed.

 

He said that 30,000 of the 200,000 people who die of cancer and strokes each year would survive "if they lived anywhere else in northern Europe".

 

Dr Butler also claimed in the book that the number of people receiving state benefits has risen from 17 million people in 1997 to 21 million people by 2007.

 

He found that nearly six million families receive ?16 billion-worth of child credit. Dr Butler said: "It's ridiculously high number of beneficiaries for something aimed to help the poorest."

 

The result is that some families would be better off if the parents did not live together.

 

He said: "Three-quarters of the poorest households would be better off splitting up. And when money is tight, that is exactly what happens."

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