Where's the plug points?

[observer]

With the price of petrol escalating, alternatives appear more attractive: an electric car for example - but (aside from home) where do you charge up your batteries? London has some (free use) in their car parks, Manchester has one, Birmingham has none - has Warrington got any?

[Steve the Original]

yes loads!!!! there all at home though!!!! oh and you need an extension cord as well..

 

 

Steve

[Bazj]

With the price of petrol escalating, alternatives appear more attractive: an electric car for example - but (aside from home) where do you charge up your batteries? London has some (free use) in their car parks, Manchester has one, Birmingham has none - has Warrington got any?

 

Dopey idea. Why go to all that trouble of switching to electric powered cars when a simple LPG conversion saves bucket loads? I have just done Warrington to Legoland (Windsor) and back and a few days back and to from hotel to park; for less than ?35.00 in LPG. And that is in a 3 litre V6 Cosworth engined gas guzzler.

 

Electric cars will surely become more expensive to charge up as the energy companies keep sticking the prices up?

[Dizzy]

Maybe Shelly will re-appear and answer this She knew all there was to know about electric cars and the so called pros/cons and plug issues from her time with the 'green party'.... infact there was a very long thread about just this subject a while ago.

 

Now she's left the greens and joined the Lib Dims she's suddenly gone very quiet which is a shame

 

In fact Chrissy her new LD partner in crime has also dissapeared... I hope they are both OK

[Dizzy]

Dopey idea. Why go to all that trouble of switching to electric powered cars when a simple LPG conversion saves bucket loads? I have just done Warrington to Legoland (Windsor) and back and a few days back and to from hotel to park; for less than ?35.00 in LPG. And that is in a 3 litre V6 Cosworth engined gas guzzler.

 

Wow that's good. How many miles was that It cost us nearly that much to get to wales in ours with the caravan in tow.

 

How much did your conversion kit cost and was it done locally also where do you get LPG from ?

[Bazj]

I fitted the LPG system myself Dis. I bought an accident damaged granada Cosworth with the 8 month old system in place for 200 quid and sold the remainder of the car for 100 quid.

 

I fitted all the bits myself and then had a specialist installer of the Romano system set it all up and make the final connections. That cost another ?150.00 so I guess all in all with a few bits of copper pipe and a new filler; the whole thing cost about ?320.00 for a full multipoint system with the tank that fits in the wheel well. The specilaist installer was in Norwich, but I picked it so as to try out the economy when it was done. Me and my little lad flew to Norwich to pick up the car and then drove to Devon for a few days..... real economy!

 

I only fitted it because a, it was cheap and b, the last time we drove to the south of France, it cost ?600.00 in petrol!!

 

Just got another Romano system off another damaged car for my mates car.... something to do later in the year!

 

I usually fill up at Tesco but the price of the gas has been rising steadily over the past few years as the petrol companies cotton on to another source of cash. Still better than filling up with petrol!

[Dizzy]

Certainly sounds like it's worth it at the moment Baz but guess you have the advantage of being mechanically minded . As you say though sooner or later I guess the price of LPG will start to rocket too once more people start to convert and the government realise that they are loosing out. Perhaps you should keep it to yourself

 

Am I right in thinking that you finish up with two 'fuel' tanks ? I notice you mentioned your LPG tank fits in the wheel well. Does that mean that you can use/revert to either LPG or the original system ?

 

I believe an LPG converted car in a heated spray booth can be a very interesting sight if the repairer is not aware of it or does not have brains though

[observer]

Seems one can't win: you've said it yourself Baz; "the price of LPG is now starting to go up" !

[Peter T]

Maybe Shelly will re-appear and answer this She knew all there was to know about electric cars and the so called pros/cons and plug issues from her time with the 'green party'.... infact there was a very long thread about just this subject a while ago.

 

Now she's left the greens and joined the Lib Dims she's suddenly gone very quiet which is a shame

 

In fact Chrissy her new LD partner in crime has also dissapeared... I hope they are both OK

 

Perhaps the grass was "greener" where they were.

[Bill]

One of the Taxi companies I look after converted it?s fleet of about 80 cars to LPG in an attempt to save money but after two years of use, the number of engine failures was outweighing the savings and caused them to revert back.

 

Bill

[Bazj]

There are a few disadvantages Dis, spray booth issues are true, I had a bit of mine sprayed last year after some $%*&**%$ decided to scrape down the side of my car on Cockhedge car park. I made the bodyshop aware and it was OK in the end.

 

They won't let you take the LPG converted car on the EuroTunnel trains. That is a governmnet thing though, rather than anything else.

 

Yes it does have two tanks and can run on either gas or petrol. Hence the dual fuel note on its log book.

 

And as for the price issue Obs; yes it isgoing up slowly but it is still only 54p a litre at the moment. Can you say that about petrol??

[inky pete]

I looked at the dual fuel option for my next compny car (Vauxhall). Looked good and I'd have done it, but unfortunately the company would have dropped my mileage claim rate right down.

 

When I did the sums on claim rate vs. fuel cost it became apparent that the claim rate made the un-realistic assumption that the car would be running on LPG 100% of the time.

[observer]

So, in the interests of becoming greener; should we accept these price increases and change our lifestyles and cars to suit? Seems the latest stats show that our National carbon footprint has actually increased; now that our outsourcing of polluting manufacturing to China etc has been taken into account in our imports.

[Bazj]

I looked at the dual fuel option for my next compny car (Vauxhall). Looked good and I'd have done it, but unfortunately the company would have dropped my mileage claim rate right down.

 

When I did the sums on claim rate vs. fuel cost it became apparent that the claim rate made the un-realistic assumption that the car would be running on LPG 100% of the time.

 

If the car is converted, there is no reason why it can't run on LPG all the time except when starting up and the initial 2 or 3 minutes while it warms up enough to liquify the LPG enough to be injected (LPG in its normal state is a sticky liquid and so it is passed through a vapouriser which is plumbed into the cars water system which heats up the LPG to make it more fluid)

 

I put about ?15.00 a month in petrol now just for this purpose (and for the occasional blow out at the traffic lights when some young chav wants to take me on in his 1 litre Nova!!)

 

Surely you can't expect to get the same rate per mile off your company that you did off petrol?

[Dizzy]

Maybe Shelly will re-appear and answer this She knew all there was to know about electric cars and the so called pros/cons and plug issues from her time with the 'green party'.... infact there was a very long thread about just this subject a while ago.

 

Now she's left the greens and joined the Lib Dims she's suddenly gone very quiet which is a shame

 

In fact Chrissy her new LD partner in crime has also dissapeared... I hope they are both OK

 

Perhaps the grass was "greener" where they were.

 

.......they were warned Probably now having to tow the party political line and have been gagged

 

Shame as they both certainly livened up certain forum discussions

[Dizzy]

There are a few disadvantages Dis, spray booth issues are true, I had a bit of mine sprayed last year after some $%*&**%$ decided to scrape down the side of my car on Cockhedge car park. I made the bodyshop aware and it was OK in the end.

 

They won't let you take the LPG converted car on the EuroTunnel trains. That is a governmnet thing though, rather than anything else.

 

Yes it does have two tanks and can run on either gas or petrol. Hence the dual fuel note on its log book.

 

And as for the price issue Obs; yes it isgoing up slowly but it is still only 54p a litre at the moment. Can you say that about petrol??

 

Good job you told them Guess most reputable bodyshops should be fully aware of the safety issues and as long as owners remember to tell them it's converted it's ok.

 

I do like the sound of the duel fuel option especially the 54p per litre LPG bit

[Dizzy]

One of the Taxi companies I look after converted it?s fleet of about 80 cars to LPG in an attempt to save money but after two years of use, the number of engine failures was outweighing the savings and caused them to revert back.

 

Bill

 

Bill, when you say engine failures.... to what extent

 

You say they reverted back but was any serious damage done to the engines from running on LPG or was it just a question of switching back and poblem solved.

 

I know quite a few people who run cars like one of ours on vegetable oil.. most have never had a problem but one blew his engine... OUCH !! Had to fit a new one but still carried on using vegie oil as he said he was still in pocket

[Bill]

Dismayed

 

I don't know the exact details of the kind of problems they experienced but it was sufficient for them to revert back to conventional fuel. I'll ask the question next time I speak with the owner and get back to you.

 

Bill

[Dizzy]

Thanks Bill

[ex padgate girl]

Not sure i would like an electric car, Do they make a noise or are they quiet.

I would be worrying that animals would not hear me. if they are quiet.

 

Sorry i have never seen one.

Im not just being blonde Steve

[Dizzy]

According to one of 'Shellys' old posts they are very quiet and pedestrians tend not to notice you are near them so I guess animals may not notice you either.

 

They could always use their eyes and other senses though I suppose

[observer]

Animals tend to have more acute senses than humans - and probably more sense too!

[Shelley]

Animals tend to have more acute senses than humans - and probably more sense too!

I haven't been gagged, just busy.

 

You'd think so, but I do have to be careful about the cat. I worry that he will get underfoot trying to get catfood and not realize that it's more dangerous getting under the cars feet than getting under mine. Sometimes just when you think cats are incredible clever they do something to total disprove it. But electric cars aren't completely silent, a fair amount of car noise comes from the tires. They are most quiet when you are going slow, so you do have to watch out for cats. But at speeds where there is serious danger, they make enough noise to warn people and even cats provided they are used to what to listen for. You have to also think that noise is one of the forms of pollution of cars. It's not a design feature. You could equally as well criticize EVs for not warning you with their smell.

 

As to plugging in, the plan is for a countryside network, but I haven't yet heard of anything outside of London. I only plug it at home or at friends houses. I'm really looking forward to this becoming a reality so that I can double my range and get out to Manchester, Liverpool, or Chester. I could get to Trafford Center if I could charge there, and I keep meaning to write to them and ask about it. Some of the more fanatic EV people on my mailing list have resorted to more creative measures for charging like going to caravan parks. I've heard there are pretty helpful, but not tried it myself.

 

As to where the electricity comes from ultimately, the biggest advantage is that it can come from a variety of places. One website I came across claimed that a fair portion of the electricity for EVs can be supplied simply from that not needed for getting oil out of the ground.

 

From big picture environment point of view, short term LPG is probably as good, but with electricity it gets better as the supply of electricity gets better, and to my mind the much neglected advantage is that no tail pipe emissions is significant, because we shouldn't be polluting in our living room. I think in the long run, in spite of the lack of noise--or maybe even partly because of it--EVs have the potential to be more pedestrian compatible so to encourage less car use. As well as no tailpipe emissions, they are much more efficient at low speeds than anything that has to burn something, making them naturals for in town driving. I know from having walked into town from Appleton a few times that the walk up London Road would be fair more pleasant if all the cars on it were electric.

[inky pete]

If the car is converted, there is no reason why it can't run on LPG all the time except when starting up and the initial 2 or 3 minutes while it warms up enough to liquify the LPG enough to be injected (LPG in its normal state is a sticky liquid and so it is passed through a vapouriser which is plumbed into the cars water system which heats up the LPG to make it more fluid)

 

I put about ?15.00 a month in petrol now just for this purpose (and for the occasional blow out at the traffic lights when some young chav wants to take me on in his 1 litre Nova!!)

 

Surely you can't expect to get the same rate per mile off your company that you did off petrol?

 

I don't expect the same rate as for petrol only, but as you say, you do still need to use about ?200 a year in petrol for warming up and acceleration - I wouldn't have been compensated by my employer for this cost.

 

Also, this was a couple of years ago when LPG was a bit less common and I wasn't sure that I'd always be able to find a petrol station with LPG available when I'm out and about in un-familiar areas, especially as I'm often on the road in the middle of the night. Whenever I had to fill up on petrol in this situation I'd have lost a significant amount of money as I'd only have been able to claim as if it were LPG at half the price.

 

Plus, the dual fuel vauxhall had a higher list price than the petrol only, so my company car tax would have gone up by almost as much as the CO2 saving would have pulled it down.

 

Basically I was keen to do it but there were dis-incentives in the way, both from my company and from the tax man.

[asperity]

As to where the electricity comes from ultimately, the biggest advantage is that it can come from a variety of places. One website I came across claimed that a fair portion of the electricity for EVs can be supplied simply from that not needed for getting oil out of the ground.

 

Typical example of ignoring the question. You still need to get fuel from somewhere to generate the electricity to charge up your car. And please don't say wind power because you still need conventional power stations for when the wind isn't blowing.