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Would you intervene?

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Mayor Boris has advised Londoners NOT to attempt to intervene in fights or muggings as knives could be involved, but call the Police - seems fairly common sense advice. :? But, as if to be different for the sake of it, Home Secretary (Jackie Smith) is encouraging folk to intervene. :roll: What would you do? :?:wink:

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Clearly Edmund was a Burke, not living with the current reality - get killed while intervening or kill a perp while intervening and go to prison - not a good set of options. :roll::wink:

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Having read so many tragic tales lately, I think I would take the option and go home to my wife and kids rather than get involved..... Who knows what weapons these crazy kids are hiding under their coats these days!

 

I guess it is the new ME ME ME attitude rather than look after the whole!

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The problem is; if one intervenes, knowing the risks (knives etc); one has to go in to severely disable and possibly finish up killing the perpetrator(s) (kill or be killed). :shock: Unfortunately, the police and the law wouldn't see it that way, you'd be charged with manslaughter and have to spend time in the courts trying to prove your altruistic action was the use of "reasonable force". :roll::wink:

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Who knows what one would do faced with a situation. I'm not sure a response can be pre determined, I think most people weigh up the situation at the time.

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Clearly Edmund was a Burke, not living with the current reality - get killed while intervening or kill a perp while intervening and go to prison - not a good set of options. :roll::wink:

 

Not great, admittedly, but to my mind better than living with the knowledge that the little old lady the scrote mugged and killed the next day might still be alive if I'd acted.

 

A widely held policy of non-intervention is just a green light to the thugs. It's a personal decision and no two situations are the same, but I believe that those of us who have the ability to intervene positively in a particular situation also have a duty to do so.

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Exactly Paul - until you are actually in the situation - you really do not know what you will do.

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Yesterday, I took the family to see the Tall Ships event in Liverpool on the train from New Brighton. At the start of the journey, there was just ourselves and a young couple probably in their mid twenties.

 

The man had his feet on the seat opposite despite posters all over the carriage asking people not to do this. As we got closer to Liverpool, the train became more congested at each station with people forced to stand and yet nobody asked this man to remove his feet from the seat.

 

We stayed quite late and the train back wasn?t as packed on the return but guess what? Sitting in exactly the same seat was the very same bloke, again with his feet on the seat. The guard came onto the train at the last station before New Brighton, looked right at the bloke, then walked past without saying anything. A couple of minutes later, he again walked right past him and again said nothing.

 

I was hopping mad at this so I stopped the guard and asked him why he hadn?t spoken to this bloke. At first he denied seeing anything but then after a few choice words from myself he changed it to ?Well its not my job and I don?t want a confrontation.? I told him to stand and watch.

 

I simply asked the bloke if he?d mind taking his dirty feet off the seats as my grandson and family had to sit on them. He also got his ear bent for forcing people to stand on the outward journey.

 

The guy was clearly embarrassed in front of his girlfriend, who apparently had already told him about it and she could be heard giving him a right ear bashing over the matter as they left the station.

 

Bill :)

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Intervening may not call for an act of violence yourself, it may require just negotiation or intimidation.

 

if we could return to a society where a "neighbourhood" work together, if 3 or 4 adults from gary newloves street confronted the vandals instead of him alone, I'm sure nobody would have been hurt.

 

the breakdown of neighbourhoods is what's causing violence/vandalism to increase, get to know your neighbours, we work better together, if you know the parents of the kids, and the kids know you know their parents, or you just have enough people around you that all come out when theres any hint of trouble, that will frighten the thugs away.

 

I for one will never turn my back and alow my home/street to be completely lost, after all I only have one life I know about and I'm already dead if I'm afraid to walk down my own street.

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That's true Legion; but that requires a cohesive "community", where people believe in such a concept as society. :roll: Alas today, with have the cult of the individual, with most retreating into the own bubbles, some not knowing or even caring who their neighbours are! :roll: This is compounded, when those in Authority (as above) fail to do their job in order to "avoid confrontation". :roll::wink:

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It?d be nice to think it could work that way but the reality is that it doesn?t.

 

I remember several years ago when a local druggie went berserk threatening people with a knife. Eventually he threatened an OAP who responded by bashing him on the head with a gate bolt. The event attracted at least forty or so onlookers, none of which saw anything though when the police arrived and the old chap ended up being charged with assault.

 

It?s one thing not to approach a loony with a knife but for a whole group of neighbours to deny witnessing such a crime leads me to wonder what sort of society we live in.

 

Bill :)

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I don?t think it?s just that people live in their own bubble as you put it because clearly there?s the threat of reprisals to take into consideration.

 

I?m not too sure but I think the law is different in Scotland than it is here in England when it comes to witnessing crime. I think in Scotland, it?s a criminal offence for a witness to withhold information. Perhaps we ought to adopt the same thing here?

 

Bill :)

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Unfortunately, you can lead horses to water, but you can't make them drink. :roll: The recent anonimity law, is designed to safeguard witnesses from intimidation, but without effective policing folk will never feel safe enough to act. :wink:

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Yesterday, I took the family to see the Tall Ships event in Liverpool on the train from New Brighton. At the start of the journey, there was just ourselves and a young couple probably in their mid twenties.

 

The man had his feet on the seat opposite despite posters all over the carriage asking people not to do this. As we got closer to Liverpool, the train became more congested at each station with people forced to stand and yet nobody asked this man to remove his feet from the seat.

 

We stayed quite late and the train back wasn?t as packed on the return but guess what? Sitting in exactly the same seat was the very same bloke, again with his feet on the seat. The guard came onto the train at the last station before New Brighton, looked right at the bloke, then walked past without saying anything. A couple of minutes later, he again walked right past him and again said nothing.

 

I was hopping mad at this so I stopped the guard and asked him why he hadn?t spoken to this bloke. At first he denied seeing anything but then after a few choice words from myself he changed it to ?Well its not my job and I don?t want a confrontation.? I told him to stand and watch.

 

I simply asked the bloke if he?d mind taking his dirty feet off the seats as my grandson and family had to sit on them. He also got his ear bent for forcing people to stand on the outward journey.

 

The guy was clearly embarrassed in front of his girlfriend, who apparently had already told him about it and she could be heard giving him a right ear bashing over the matter as they left the station.

 

Bill :)

 

Interestingly Mersey Rail, prosecuted a young woman :wink: recently for having her feet on the seats.

 

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=merseyrail-takes-840-to-court-over-feet-on-seats&method=full&objectid=19736926&siteid=50061-name_page.html[/url]

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Think if you read the story she wasn?t prosecuted but let off and quite wrongly so in my opinion.

 

There are signs all over the carriages asking people not to do this so there really is no excuse. It?s a dirty, filthy habit carried out by those with no respect for society and for a judge to effectively give a green light to this sort of behaviour beggars belief.

 

Bill :)

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I think the last of societys problems is people who put feet on seats on the grand scale of crime and loutish behavior. And cannot see any harm in it provided theiy are not taking up a seat in a full cabin (as in the journey out) or do not have anything too offensive on their shoes.

 

while it may be annoying that somone is flouting some sign that people who follow regulations as a matter of course abide by, the act in itself is not causing anyone any real injury, fear of injury or risk which are the basic principles of just laws. I think it may well be the case that many of the less offensive regualtions a broke as a defyance of the nany state and the stupid laws we do have.

 

smoking bans, now they are trying to ban pub happy hours, remeber the fun as kids throwing a rope over a tree in a feild and making a swing...kids can't do that anymore without some busybody moving them on. swimming in sankey valley, moore quarry, rallying your bikes on wasteland...now all fenced off with security guards and dogs.

 

kids have nothing to do because basic freedoms have been eroded, and now simply playing a game of football on an empty feild will require booking in advance and paying for a pitch.

 

southport council charge you to park on the beach !!!! the beach...how does that work suerly no one owns a beach.

 

walton gardens has parking restrictions on all the surrounding roads and then charges extortionate rates for their feild to park in !

 

there is no Free in Freedom anymore.

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I think your 100% wrong there Legion. It?s dirty, antisocial and against the companies? expressed rules. What?s more, nobody should have the right do pick and choose what rules they will or won't obey even if they did pay for a ticket.

 

Ok it?s not a hanging offence, but for society to work there has to be some starting point where rules and acceptable standards of behaviour kick in. Dropping litter for example doesn?t really harm anyone neither does swearing in public but without what you seem to regard as ?petty? laws, respect for law and order would be completely out the window more so than it is now.

 

Ok there are some stupid rules (the current bin ?laws? for example), but where the vast majority of the public believe the rules are just and correct, then deliberately breaking them has to be classed as anti social behaviour.

 

Bill :)

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If you allow small fires, they quickly develope into infernoes - low tolerance policing that challenges behaviour is required. :shock: However, having said that; seems our police arn't immune to attack: seems two officers who challenged a girl for littering, were then attacked by a gang of her mates. :shock: Only answer for such spoiled brats is a good hiding back at the police station - it's all these morons understand. :wink:

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Well done and well said Bill. :D

 

Not that i'd adviocate it but could you not have both sat in his knees and used his legs as a seat. A bit nobbly I suppose but to see the pain on his face would have given the other passengers a bit of light relief.

 

I'm surprised that the guard didn't intervene as Mersey rail are really trying to look after their customers and address the bad manners of such passengers. :x

 

Feet on seats, passengers who use the seat next to them as a place to put their bags, swearing and other such bad behaviour really does annoy me but as you say usually if you point this out they get the message. It is a question of setting the bounds of what is acceptable behaviour.

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