Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Dizzy

Soaring Petrol/Diesel Prices - are we being conned ?

Recommended Posts

Yes, hence our green and pleasant land has gone yellow. :wink::D

 

PS Dismayed, be careful, modern diesels are more sensitive to the quality of fuel and my guess it would invalidate the manufacturers warranty. Somebody I know with an old diesel mixes veg oil with diesel...tells me it works OK.....and his car is still running. Problem is veg oil will rise even more rapidly in price. The brand I buy has gone up a ?1 for 3 litres in just a few months. :(

 

It will be interesting to see if sales of "red" diesel have been increasing. :wink:

 

Wouldn't go down the red diesel route as it's illegal to use in cars. 8) The only vehicles whic are allowed to use it on a public highway are vehicles such as agricultural tractors, combine harvesters etc...Now there's a thought we could all drive tractors :D

 

There are a lot of people using it though and apparently it's costing the taxpayers ?350m

 

HM Revenue and Customs officials recently carried out spot checks in Lancashire, Greater Manchester and Merseyside at petrol stations, supermarkets and car parks to catch motorists using red diesel and found one in five tanks vehicles stopped contained red diesel. :shock: There are some rather hefty fines if you are caught too.

 

It is easily identified by it's red dye and also it's chemical markers which can be traces by a simple swab of your exhaust.... and even if you stop using it traces will remain in your car or a long time :shock:

 

As for vege oil... like you say the price will start to rise sharply if it catches on. You are supposed to declare to HM R & C how much vege oil you have used so they can tax you on it though :roll:

 

Still might give it a go though as not only will we save money but apparently it makes your car smell like a chippy.. yum yum :wink::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
80% tax is wrong folks. There hasn't been a tax rise on fuel since October, all the increases lately have been from the petrol companies due to the cost of a barrel of oil soaring up to $130.

 

Tax is now around 50% of the cost of filling your car. Remember it's not a % tax, the fuel duty is a fixed amount

 

http://www.petrolprices.com/fuel-tax.html

 

But the VAT is a percentage tax isn't it :roll::roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
80% tax is wrong folks. There hasn't been a tax rise on fuel since October, all the increases lately have been from the petrol companies due to the cost of a barrel of oil soaring up to $130.

 

Tax is now around 50% of the cost of filling your car. Remember it's not a % tax, the fuel duty is a fixed amount

 

http://www.petrolprices.com/fuel-tax.html

 

But the VAT is a percentage tax isn't it :roll::roll:

It's not the fuel duty though. That is a fixed amount. And VAT is 17.5% btw and also included in those figures I quoted, so take 17.5% of the difference between then and now, and that's all the tax increase there's been. Like i say, around 50% :roll::roll::roll::roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you did say that ALL the recent increases were down to the oil companies, but the VAT return goes up with the price. :wink::wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's what I thought - 17.5% of a larger amount must be more than 17.5% of a smaller amount? :?:roll::wink:
Wow, really?

 

OK then, in October tax was 67% of the overall cost of a gallon, in 1995 it was 79%.

 

Lets assume a gallon is now ?1.15, some places less, but that's about top whack I believe?

 

The extra VAt imposed will be 3.5pence

 

:roll:

 

So at current prices, tax accounts for 58% of the total cost of a litre of fuel.

 

Is that ok for those of you mathematically challenged? :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuel Duty (as of 1 October 2007) in the United Kingdom is:

 

50.35 pence per litre for ultra-low sulphur unleaded petrol/diesel

53.65 pence per litre for conventional unleaded petrol

56.94 pence per litre for conventional diesel

30.35 pence per litre for bio-diesel and bio ethanol - low tax to encourage consumer conversion

16.49 pence per kg for gas other than natural gas (LPG)

13.70 pence per kg for natural gas used as road fuel.

9.69 pence per litre for rebated gas oil (red diesel)

9.29 pence per litre for rebated fuel oil

 

 

So on a litre of petrol @ ?1.15, in rounded figures, duty is 54p VAT is 17p & net cost of petrol is 44p ....therefore direct taxes are approx 62% of the cost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So 17.5% of ?100 isn't greater than 17.5% of ?1? :roll: Errm. :wink:
Yup well done. Now back on topic, the vast majority of the recent price petrol rise is down to the increasing oil price and not taxation. Ty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fuel Duty (as of 1 October 2007) in the United Kingdom is:

 

50.35 pence per litre for ultra-low sulphur unleaded petrol/diesel

53.65 pence per litre for conventional unleaded petrol

56.94 pence per litre for conventional diesel

30.35 pence per litre for bio-diesel and bio ethanol - low tax to encourage consumer conversion

16.49 pence per kg for gas other than natural gas (LPG)

13.70 pence per kg for natural gas used as road fuel.

9.69 pence per litre for rebated gas oil (red diesel)

9.29 pence per litre for rebated fuel oil

 

 

So on a litre of petrol @ ?1.15, in rounded figures, duty is 54p VAT is 17p & net cost of petrol is 44p ....therefore direct taxes are approx 62% of the cost

Cool, didn;t have the exact figures so was working off that link.

 

Anyway, assuming your ?1.15 price..

 

VAT = 20p

Direct tax/duty = 50p (unless your looking at unleaded which no-one really uses)

Petrol cost + profit = 45p

 

So DIRECT tax is 43%, TOTAL tax is 61%

 

We got there in the end

8)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cost of fuel in the UK is putting up prices in the shops and putting british haulage firms at a disadvantage because foreign trucks bringing goods to this country can fill up cheaper on the continent and will soon be able to carry goods inter UK without paying any road tax :roll::roll::roll::roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shelly..... very nice BUT I cant for one minute imagine one of these cars being of any use at all for a normal family.

 

Don't know much about them really so please tell me... could I fit 2 adults, 1 dog and between 1 and 3 kids in one and is there one which is capable of towing a family caravan? :shock:

Would be pretty tight in a G-wiz, but Berlingo Electriques sometimes come up, which would do. There are quite popular on my EVUK mailing list. They are delivery vans, but people install back seats in them to turn them into family cars. They use NiCads, so have longer ranges than G-wiz's.

 

Why not put back seats in them, paint them pink and create a ladies only cab firm with them??

 

Just a thought!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Errm, if the cost of oil increases, so does the overall tax take. :roll::wink:

People are blaming the govt for the recent massive increases, whereas it's actually all of a MASSIVE 3.5p that is due to VAT.

 

If your going to roll your eyes or complain, at least do it at the right body - the PETROL COMPANIES!!!!!!!

 

Sounds like common sense to me Asp; but it may be disproved "mathmatecally"! :lol::wink:
Yup, far better just to have a rant than actually look at the facts eh? :roll:

 

The price of petrol is a bloody disgrace at the moment, but misdirected anger like the two of you are showing is worse than useless, and lets the real culprits get on with raking in vast profits in peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think we all know why the price is ecalating. :roll: The more it escalates, the more tax revenues start rolling in - FACT. :wink: So, if it chose, the Government could reduce prices by reducing the tax. :roll: In India, they actually subsidise fuel; which has now become an untenable burden on their oil companies, but their voters won't accept price rises and will vote accordingly - will of the people and all that! :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that fatshaft won't have been backing the biker protest this morning then, given that he feels it's all misdirected :!:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess that fatshaft won't have been backing the biker protest this morning then, given that he feels it's all misdirected :!:
Fuel tax is way too high McBain, I never said it wasn't, nor do I think we are getting value for money. But folks are only having a rant now, not 9 months ago or two years ago, but now, and the rises now are not down to tax increases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fatshaft, you seem to have a problem with businesses making profits. But don't forget that massive profits attract massive taxes. In addition pension funds rely on businesses to have large profits because they are the "fat cat" shareholders. Make the oil companies reduce their profits and you will find that your pension has been cut. Or are you one of these people who isn't saving for your old age and are relying on everyone else to keep you? And no this isnt a rant. I don't have a car any more so the price of fuel doesn't affect me directly in that way! :roll::roll::roll::roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess that fatshaft won't have been backing the biker protest this morning then, given that he feels it's all misdirected :!:

 

I know there's more groups planning these, may be at the next one meself :) .......... may be as early as next week, something has to be done, it's no good folk whinging and whining about it ........... get off your backsides and DO something about it !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fatshaft, you seem to have a problem with businesses making profits. But don't forget that massive profits attract massive taxes. In addition pension funds rely on businesses to have large profits because they are the "fat cat" shareholders. Make the oil companies reduce their profits and you will find that your pension has been cut. Or are you one of these people who isn't saving for your old age and are relying on everyone else to keep you? And no this isnt a rant. I don't have a car any more so the price of fuel doesn't affect me directly in that way! :roll::roll::roll::roll:
Jesus christ, I have no problem with businesses making profits, my only addition to this thread was to correct those (you and Observer mainly) who seem hell bent on pinning the latest fuel woes on Gordon Brown, who for all his faults can't be blamed for this.

 

I can only presume the tone of your continued comments in the face of the facts placed in front of you, are as a a result of pure distaste for the current government, because you're willing to castigate the govt for tax rises that haven't happened, and yet will defend businesses making profits from exactly the same source to the hilt.

 

Your position is bizarre, I've certainly had my rants in the past on fuel tax, doubt it was on this forum, and as I've already said we are taxed far too much, but the rises over the last few months are down to the fuel companies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Make the oil companies reduce their profits and you will find that your pension has been cut. Or are you one of these people who isn't saving for your old age and are relying on everyone else to keep you?

This will drag the thread off topic, but no, and what an incredible tangent to take, I can only be disagreeing with you because I don't have a pension????

 

FWIW I have a works pension, which I only contribute to because the more I pay in the more they pay in, prior to that my pensions were minimal because I put money in PEPs etc so just took the basic company added portion, but now I work for a decent company so there are good reasons to be in their scheme. I don't believe you get value for money from pensions in any way, and (again fwiw) having had the ear of an ex-insurance salesman for a while recently it was interesting to hear him actually having the same reasoning, and that's from an insider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×