Mary Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 Neanderthals disappeared from Earth more than 20,000 years ago, but figuring out why continues to challenge anthropologists. One team of scientists, however, now says they have evidence to back climate change as the main culprit. web page My question is - are they sure that homo sapiens didn't interbreed with them and thats what the change was? I mean if the climate effected them why not homo sapien's too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Because homo-sapiens had a brain capable of conceptual thought; which allowed innovation and adaptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 "Neanderthals operated in a literal world, where abstract concepts were unknown - EG: they wouldn't understand a joke or the idea of an afterlife. Judging by some of the characters we see today; it's possible some inter-breeding went on!" So begins the autobiography of Observer! All this amazing deduction from ancient arthritic skeletons! Hmm, maybe that tells us something too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Not my theory Gman (you jumped in too soon - as usual) - Prof Winstanley (of IVF fame) in the TV series "walking with cavemen". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 You know I am winding! You are arguing from authority and not from evidence. But,. this discussion is a waste of time. All we would be doing is shouting from our ideological rooftops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 So WHAT'S new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Just to take the deductions of the TV series a little further: through observations of Neanderthal sleletons; they ascertained the probable position of the vocal cords, and concluded that they would have spoken with high pitched voices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Perhaps the Stylistics and the Bee Gees were descendants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 I knew the vocal chords issue was going to come up. But since the odds against abiogenic synthesis starting on its own are so ridiculously high for such a narrow time band as it needed to be, then the whole process should never have happened from the off. However, philosophically and scientifically it is illogical for a finite changeable material universe which had an absolute beginning not to have been caused by something else, and parallel universes, while totally in the realm of hypothesis, also merely shelves answering that problem one step back. Also, for the atheists to propose an already infinite amount of universes to already exist for this universe to come out of is nonsense, as then in that case you cannot add one onto something which is infinite, which would mean that this universe had no beginning. Also, how can something which is infinite (matter in this case) burst into another finite dimension? Mathematically, you cannot have an infinity of finite universes anyway. The other idea that the universe is a brute fact (it made itself come into existence without existence) is also preposterous. That leaves only one possible conclusion. An agent independent of time and space created the Universe deliberately (as since the Universe did not exist and so there were no physics which are about the interaction of forces and objects in an existing Universe), and if it was deliberate this agent was a personal one, an intelligence. The question of who made the intelligence is a stupid one as since that intelligent First Cause is independent of time and space and indeed had to create time and space as well as matter for the Universe to exist. Therefore any notion of the First Cause being a creature, created or having at some point not existed is a fallacy. The question "Who made God?" is a nonsensical question as the First Cause is precisely that- a first, FIRST cause. Everything else that exists is an effect, even the very phenomenon of the finite and matter and beginnings and endings had to be invented. In that case, given the wildly improbable odds against abiogenic synthesis, the need for mutations for evolution to work (mutations cause disabilities and deformities, not improvements making adaptation, thus meaning evolution could only be possible by 'supernatural' means), I would say from that point of view it is far easier then to believe in Eve being formed from Adam's rib. Adam's rib is far easier than the feat of creating the Universe from nothing, and even more easy than the Universe coming into existence by itself and more logical than the Universe being a brute fact (a non-existent Universe cannot bring itself into existence). Macro-Evolution is a scientifically and philosophically absurd theory. Micro-evolution is a different story. That I do accept quite happily. As I have often said before, my objections to Evolution have always been scientific ones. (And of course the Second Law of Thermodynamics combined with the problem of mutations disproves Evolution, as the universal state of decay corrupts everything, plus it disproves the eternity of matter as all energy is matter, and for energy to decline irrevocably points to the amount of matter being finite, as well as to there being a time when there was total energy, pointing to a time of the beginning.) Put it this way, in the 1920s Edwin Hubble discovered from his observations via telescope and especially through spectroscopy that the Universe is expanding. But the Bible beat him to it a long time ago. In several places in the Old Testament it says that God stretches out the Heavens, a statement hardly in keeping with ancient cosmology. I think I have said more than enough on this topic and you for us to go in ever decreasing circles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 "Time for bed", said Zebedee, not the biblical one of course. I particularly liked McDonalds Cave by the Piltdown Men; where they the real deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 :sleeping: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 :bluegrab: :crazy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 :sleeping: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 You're getting old, Obbs, you need to take out a Philosophy 101 Class to stimulate your brain and so be able to catch up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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