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Whilst I can see some aspects of the green agenda making some sense, if it means less carbon impact on our environment;  I'm not convinced of the logic being applied to certain initiatives.   As a general point, it would make sense, if increased energy use is the cause; that we invest in schemes that reduce such energy use - EG:  the provision of better insulated homes, that would reduce heating requirements and reduce costs to the consumer. Then we've got the issue of fossil fuels,  which has prompted the proposed ban on petrol and diesel cars by 2030,  but no mention of the carbon footprint involved in the production of EV technology.   We've had Gov criticism of working from home, as a response to Covid, which reduces care usage;  but the same Gov is talking about a pay per mile road tax system to reduce car use.    It just seems as if one initiative is laughing at the other, and we lack a long term comprehensive plan.     :unsure:  

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I live in a street of terraced houses ,built before cars were even thought of . From the talk of new petrol & diesel cars being banned from 2030 it seems like full electric will be the norm from 2040/50 & if car ownership progresses as it has in my lifetime then kerbside charging as in my neighbourhood would be impossible. Hopefully, big strides will be made in terms of self charging electric vehicles/hybrids. I would still favour hydrogen though.

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sounds like our street davy.

i am parked mostly outside my neighbour. mainly because the neighbour on the other side has a disabled space that covers my front door and has a people carrier that fits the space. most of the rest of the street also have people carriers, so although i have the smallest car in the street i have difficulty getting in and out  if i don't leave enough space at the front , hence parking mostly outside the other neighbours house.

there are 27 cars parked in our street, considering there are only twelve houses in the terrace that is a lot of cars. add electric to them all and it would look like the old telephone exchanges.

surprised that no electric cars so far have solar panels fitted on the roof as standard. solar panels are supposed to have been improved enough these days to at least make it a viable option for top up .charging.. (at least that is what the guy who keeps trying to get me to have them fitted to the roof says.)

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It’s take at least a month of full summer sunshine to charge a battery Sid so hold onto your dosh.

I’m thinking at the moment that the problem lies with how long it takes to charge a battery but if there was some way of giving it a mega boost every so often while still driving, then it may be possible to make it so that the car doesn’t need to be charged at all outside a house.

Maybe something along the line they're currently using on electric busses, where they get a quick boost while stopped. Not enough time to charge a battery but enough to get it to the next stop where the process is repeated.

 

Bill :)

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As you say Sid ,wires everywhere to step over in the dull glow of eco street lighting & no doubt flat batteries will blight the daily commute ,but full buses will mean there will be plenty of passengers to push the buses to their termini.

I should think this idea of easy overnight charging has been thought of while looking at a town plan of leafy suburban semi & detached houses.

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1 hour ago, Davy51 said:

As you say Sid ,wires everywhere to step over in the dull glow of eco street lighting & no doubt flat batteries will blight the daily commute ,but full buses will mean there will be plenty of passengers to push the buses to their termini.

Ah memories of trolley buses....

The great hope of Hydrogen is aimed at removing the need for power points outside terraced houses. The question remains whether such technology can ever be safe storing highly combustible material under high pressure in significant volumes next to residential properties close to other such stores all down the street. 

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2 hours ago, Observer II said:

Will EV's be affordable to the great unwashed ?   I won't be around, but I'm guessing folk will hang on to their petrol/diesel cars, and keep repairing/maintaining them as long as possible.    :rolleyes:

Exactly, Obs. It will be interesting how much potential energy has to be generated to recharge transport standard batteries per 12 or 24 hour period.

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1 hour ago, Confused52 said:

Ah memories of trolley buses....

The great hope of Hydrogen is aimed at removing the need for power points outside terraced houses. The question remains whether such technology can ever be safe storing highly combustible material under high pressure in significant volumes next to residential properties close to other such stores all down the street. 

Is it possible the powers that be could come up with a piece of machinery within a car that could produce hydrogen from a tank full of water ? I have no idea how big such a piece of plant would have to be but, you never know, it could happen.

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Ah but. The amount of electrical power needed to create hydrogen from water using electricity is three times the power that the hydrogen can give so it sort of doesn't make any sense to do that.

Without batteries and until perpetual motion is invented, you'd need a petrol engine driving a generator to produce electricity to produce hydrogen to feed into a fuel cell that generates electricity.  :)

The only real benefit of hydrogen is that it's power density gives increased range. New battery technologies are constantly evolving that will no doubt bring them closer to this goal. 

 

Bill :)  

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16 hours ago, Bill said:

It’s take at least a month of full summer sunshine to charge a battery Sid so hold onto your dosh.

Thinking more along the lines of a top up whilst driving or sat in traffic.

Might not be much but even a extra two miles per journey may help.

They have those plug in chargers that you put on the dash and plug into the auxiliary power point.(cigarette lighter socket for those of us who remember those things.)

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Forget about a couple of extra miles Sid, a dash charger wouldn't buy you much more than a couple of inches if you're lucky.

I read recently that on of the leading manufactures are offering a full roof and bonnet covered in solar and claimed that for every hour in full sun, it would buy you an extra mile. It's just a sales gimmick for the eco maniacs but the maths just don't add up when you consider the additional costs, not to mention how infrequently we get full summer sun days.

Right, off to take my gas guzzler for an MOT.

 

Bill :) 

 

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The simple solution is to tow a trailer containing a diesel or petrol motor driving a generator to keep your car batteries charged. What could possibly go wrong?

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1 hour ago, Davy51 said:

Perhaps we have already seen the eco future of car travel predicted in the Flintstones. 😀

You have clearly understood the green policies correctly now. The answer to every problem will be keep on banging the rocks together (H/T Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

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15 hours ago, Bill said:

Without batteries and until perpetual motion is invented, you'd need a petrol engine driving a generator to produce electricity to produce hydrogen to feed into a fuel cell that generates electricity.  :)

The only real benefit of hydrogen is that it's power density gives increased range. New battery technologies are constantly evolving that will no doubt bring them closer to this goal. 

 

Bill :)  

You are, of course, correct Bill.

You may, for completeness, add that perpetual motion violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics and you Cannae change the laws of Physics as I once heard said somewhere ...

Batteries use reversible reactions by their very nature whilst combustion of Hydrocarbons or plain Hydrogen are irreversible without supplying an even larger amount of energy. For that reason it is inconceivable that batteries could ever approach the energy density by volume of chemical energy stores. Development will have to be in producing better and more efficient motors and driving systems to reduce energy demand. Bulldozing away all the hills on trunk roads should be effective, as in digging up the Pennines! 

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I think there’s more truth in that last statement than most recognise. It’s obvious that a hilly environment would soon flatten a battery even though there’s a down to every up but constant stop start driving on congested roads has the same effect, if not worse than a hill. It could be argued that the most significant improvement in the range of an electric vehicle, could be made by changes to the road network and rules such that a vehicle once accelerated maintains a constant velocity which uses relatively low amounts of energy.

I mentioned before that busses are being trialled that have almost no range and instead rely on the energy of regenerative braking and a quick blast at the stop, to accelerate them back up to speed. They’re using super capacitors to achieve this as they can be charged in a matter of seconds with enough energy to get them to the next stop/charge point.

It’s not inconceivable for this type of technology to be applied to a normal car, where a huge shot of power could rapidly charge a bank of super caps which then gets used to top up the battery. So rather than having a massif heavy battery that maybe gets charged every hundred miles or so, we have a much smaller battery that gets a quick charge every few hundred yards. Yes it would require a major infrastructure change but it would probably half the cost of the car, be a lot greener and most importantly, solve Sid’s charging problem. 😊

 

Bill :)

 

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And others may argue it’s an opportunity to move the country forward rather than try to hang onto a technology that’s had its day and in any case, won’t last forever. It’s just part of evolution but years down the line it won’t be an issue.

We didn’t like it when we were told to stop burning coal, but would anyone want to go back to those days? Did that change peoples voting habits? I don't know.

And talking of green futures, my green garden waste bin is sitting doing nothing these days since my garden went all plastic so any ideas what the policy is for returning one of these or does anyone want one?

 

Bill 😊

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You could always convert it into an outside drinks cabinet bill.

ideal for barbecue night .

If you leave enough room at the bottom to fill with ice as a cooler.

Add a few shelves for the glassware.

Put couple of bluetooth speakers in the lid and some lights and be the envy of your neighbours.

Easy to move around as well when you want to move it.

(Note to self:- must stop watching money for nothing.)....🤭

 

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Some good novel ideas there Sid but back to dreaming how to solve your terraced house car charger problem.

In the age of steam, nobody would have dreamt of electrifying the railways, but we did, and it worked, so it’s not inconceivable that we could do the same with our roads, especially since most of them already have power under them. The technology to do this exists now, but it’s a chicken and egg situation.  

So we’re stuck with electric cars with huge expensive batteries running on roads designed for horse and carts because no government would want to take the leap of faith necessary to attempt to change the direction in which vehicle electrification is heading.

In my ideal dream world though, the UK would be the first to have an electrified road network where vehicles wouldn’t have limited range or need to stop to charge. The cars would only have a small battery making them far more affordable than the current petrol equivalents and they of course would be manufactured here in the UK. No large quantities of toxic materials to explode all over the place, it’s a win, win solution but requires the chicken to make the first move. 😊

 

Bill :)

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I suppose modernisation has become a major obstacle to solving this problem. In the old days of local people doing local jobs in moderately sized towns with effective ,reliable & economically priced public transport & even walking to work ,the shops & schools traffic would only need to be a small problem. Various governments with their town planning & shopping centres & separate industrial areas have created a need for car usership as the norm & also reaped the benefit of massive tax revenues. Would a backward step to times & community use like the less reliant on car days of yore even be possible ?

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