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We go our flu jabs early this year in September. Once again, no sitting for ages in a waiting room, we were both in and out in less than a minute, proving they can work efficiently when needed but I doubt this will remain the case once we’re over this.

Other than that, neither of us has seen a doctor this year but we have done online stuff that was followed up by a telephone calls which in our cases, was just as good as sitting face to face.

 

Bill :)

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Perhaps they need to tell doctors they are supposed to be open to the public.

They have to have somebody to blame and the government is an easy target. Joe public are the one's who buy their services so they will not blame them and of course they are not to blame themselve

I had a wander round GS yesterday and noted that only essential shops were open: Greggs and Pound Bakery 😁

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22 hours ago, Davy51 said:

You really should expect a 24/7 service nowadays.

Why isn't it?

I really can't understand  ; is it just a case of gp's don't want to be inconvenienced by having to work at weekends .......

Well I've got news for them others do from supermarket workers to call centre operators, warehouse workers and now even home food delivery drivers.

And of course all NHS hospital staff from Doctors to Nurses and the cooks and cleaners 24/7 without complaint.

It makes my blood boil  ............ 

Here is a BBC news item from 2014 ..............

The Conservatives have promised that every patient will have access to a GP seven days a week by the year 2020.

Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said 5,000 more GPs will be trained to provide care at weekends and in the evening, to meet the needs of a "24/7 society".

SIX YEARS AGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
GPs' extended opening hours: How will it work?Close
 

 

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6 hours ago, Bill said:

We go our flu jabs early this year in September. Once again, no sitting for ages in a waiting room, we were both in and out in less than a minute, proving they can work efficiently when needed but I doubt this will remain the case once we’re over this.

Other than that, neither of us has seen a doctor this year but we have done online stuff that was followed up by a telephone calls which in our cases, was just as good as sitting face to face.

 

Bill :)

All well and good in some instances but most gp visits get a proper look into the problem ie physical examination a phone call is ok for maybe 20% of the time but it hardly inspires confidence in doctor patient relationships.

And lets not pretend this is just till the pandemic ends...... it's here for good :-(

 

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Fortunately, being in relatively good health, I’ve not had to visit the doctor too much but when I have, I’ve generally managed to get seen the same day. Either I must be the exception to the rule or my doctors so rubbish that he doesn’t have many patients.

It doesn’t make any sense when you hear stories about there always being a delay in seeing a doctor. It might be understandable during certain conditions, but certainly not all the time. I’ve often thought that doctors have a bloody good job compared with other skilled people because the slower or less hours they work makes them more in demand. I’d bet there’s not much skill difference in becoming a doctor or say a good engineer but if an engineer worked slowly or refused overtime then they wouldn’t last long.

 

Bill :)

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Myself & Mrs Davy are intending to sign up for the surgery that comes on BBC 1 most days at  1 45 pm....there are never any queues & the doctors are so chilled ,probably with not having to deal with patients.

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Today's massive increase in cases appears to be the result of infections contracted just prior to Lockdown II according to Professor Yvonne Doyle of the NHS. The increased cases are indeed much higher in secondary school children and people of pub going age. The early leak of the lockdown by the media will therefore result in due course to an increase in infections amongst older more susceptible people. Does anybody think the media will apologise for their irresponsible behaviour? Why should they ever get away with constantly asking politicians to apologise based on their own behaviour, not to mention that of the public themselves!!

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They have to have somebody to blame and the government is an easy target.

Joe public are the one's who buy their services so they will not blame them and of course they are not to blame themselves as they are serving the "public good" by keeping the public informed (or misinformed as the case may be).

"The government are to blame" no matter what steps they take or don't take or what decisions they make.

My one question to anybody who has a go at the measures taken as wrong is this..."What is your solution"? and it should be the question any time the current measures are criticised as wrong.

I have no solution and like the government rely on those (scientists and exoerts) who have the relevant knowledge to try and come up with one.

Very easy to say "that won't work" not so easy to say "this will work"

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It’s possible that the leaks were deliberate so that any announcement wouldn’t be quite the bombshell that it otherwise would have been, plus it gave businesses a bit of a heads up to plan out the changes. I don’t think it’s possible to stop leaks and rumours when there’s so many people involved in the decision making.

I went to the pub on the last night before lockdown and yes it was about three times busier than normal but still quiet enough for it to feel relatively safe. But I’m sure other venues would have had far more crowds mingling especially over the weekend as a result of the leak and may account for the recent spike.  

Whether you blame the government or the people, depends on your point of view on how things have been handled and how people have responded. Either way, it'll always be someone else's fault.

 

Bill :)

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The people responsible for stringing this thing out, aside from nutcase deniers, are those clinging to the illusion that we can just return to economic normality, and no doubt those with sentimental addiction to the idea of having a "normal" Xmas.    If BoJo takes his foot off the brake before Xmas, we'll just see another spike into the N/Year and this virus will linger on and on.   😷   

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I don’t think there’s a cat in hells chance that by Christmas we’ll have got the numbers back down to where they were during the summer or even be able to keep them where they are now. This isn’t like the first lockdown in fact, apart from a few places being closed it’s pretty much the same as we’ve seen for several months.

I do wonder though what the effect would be if we said that just for Christmas day, anyone that felt ok with it could mix with their families for a nice home cooked Christmas dinner? That way, the family could make their own decisions to protect or exclude any vulnerable members rather than the government imposing it on them.

I doubt something like this, just for one day, would have a great impact on the numbers, but I’m sure it would help people mentally.

 

Bill 😊

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Never mind just for Christmas Day Bill, that should be the situation now. People should be taking ownership of the situation personally and not relying on the government to make rules and restrictions. Anyone who feels that they are vulnerable to infection in any way should be taking responsibility for their own health and safety. It's fine for the government to give guidance such as hand-washing, distancing and mask wearing, but its still up to each and every one of us to do what we think is right for ourselves personally. You probably don't agree with me, but I note that you aren't so cautious yourself when it comes to going out to the pub on the day before lockdown as if 24 hours is going to make the slightest bit of difference to you. It makes a hell of a difference to the landlord/landlady though doesn't it?

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No Asp, I don’t subscribe to your theory that everyone should ignore the medical advice and just do what they feel like. That’s a recipe for anarchy in my book and where would you draw the line? You’ve said or implied in the past that people are acting like sheep, well carry on and see how sheep would manage the world we live in. I don’t like all the rules, but if it was a case that the virus was only happening here rather than all around the world, then I’d probably have my doubts. But it’s not and I don’t, so I stick to the rules.

You say I’m not cautious, well that’s a bit presumptuous of you to say given you know so little about me. The reality is that I’m probably not that much different than you, in that I look at the numbers, weigh up the risk to myself and others and then make a decision. I’ve established what is the quietest time to go for my weekly pint to minimise contact with others and that’s been working well with the exception one time when a crowd of footy supports filled the bar area and then the last night before lockdown, when it got busier but not at all crowded. Now tell me where you think I’m not being cautious.

Oh and as for the pub landlords having to close for a few weeks, remember I have a business also that since this virus hit has seen it’s income slashed to virtually nothing. Any businessman knows there’s always risk and those who can’t get through this with all the help that the government, then sorry, but you shouldn't run a business if your not prepared for risk.

 

Bill 😊

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

No Asp, I don’t subscribe to your theory that everyone should ignore the medical advice and just do what they feel like. That’s a recipe for anarchy in my book and where would you draw the line? You’ve said or implied in the past that people are acting like sheep, well carry on and see how sheep would manage the world we live in. I don’t like all the rules, but if it was a case that the virus was only happening here rather than all around the world, then I’d probably have my doubts. But it’s not and I don’t, so I stick to the rules.

You say I’m not cautious, well that’s a bit presumptuous of you to say given you know so little about me. The reality is that I’m probably not that much different than you, in that I look at the numbers, weigh up the risk to myself and others and then make a decision. I’ve established what is the quietest time to go for my weekly pint to minimise contact with others and that’s been working well with the exception one time when a crowd of footy supports filled the bar area and then the last night before lockdown, when it got busier but not at all crowded. Now tell me where you think I’m not being cautious.

Oh and as for the pub landlords having to close for a few weeks, remember I have a business also that since this virus hit has seen it’s income slashed to virtually nothing. Any businessman knows there’s always risk and those who can’t get through this with all the help that the government, then sorry, but you shouldn't run a business if your not prepared for risk.

 

Bill 😊

Where did I say to ignore medical advice (unless you call the hotch-potch of conflicting statements coming from the government as such)? Going about your daily life and keeping yourself out of harm isn't "anarchy" it's trying to live as normal a life as possible.

What I've highlighted in your post says that you are doing exactly that so I don't see your objection to what I said. However what I do get from your, and Obs', posts is that you both want to do this and at the same time complain about so-called Covidiots who are trying to do the same and more or less accusing them of trying to kill everybody else. Well live and let live, keep clear of anyone and everyone, and take care of yourself as best you can. If that means staying at home (which is, after all, your favoured government and medical advice) then do that, but don't expect people who don't want to lock themselves away to do the same.

As a businessman, surely you must have sympathy for the hundreds of other businessmen who are losing their livelihoods and possibly their lives because of this over-reaction by the government. And before you accuse me of being a pub-crawler dying for a fix, I only ever go to the pub one day a week for a couple of hours.

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So, one of the main scientists at vaccine maker BioNTECH is predicting the end of 2021 is likely before we are out of the woods with covid. No economies or societies will be able to survive so many hits so if this man's expectations are correct people will just have to learn to live with it.

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1 hour ago, Davy51 said:

So, one of the main scientists at vaccine maker BioNTECH is predicting the end of 2021 is likely before we are out of the woods with covid. No economies or societies will be able to survive so many hits so if this man's expectations are correct people will just have to learn to live with it.

I think being out of the woods is quite a long way down the track and when he says that about the end of 2021 it is quite encouraging. I gather he suggested that the effect of the vaccine on infection rates would be about 50% at least and that is very significant. With the new restriction is Tier 3 the R number in Warrington seems to have fallen from around 1.1 to 0.9 and that has reduced the number of infections per day significantly. 

There was a peak in people going to non-food shops in the days leading up to the national lockdown here in Warrington shown in Google data from Android phones. Elsewhere in England that translated into an increase in cases but not seeming here. Now the difference was that Tier 3 had shut the pubs but non the non-essential shops in Warrington. That suggests that pubs should stay shut for longer than non-food shops. All this stuff is what goes into Sage's estimates and they are not just guesses. The changes in Tier 3 were expected to have just the effect they did if people mostly behaved well. The clear message now should be if you want the pubs open make sure you carry on with the measures and get vaccinated as soon as it is offered. Any other course will make this epidemic last longer

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Unfortunately though, we may have a shopping surge when the stable door is unbolted on 2nd December unless many people have shopped online. We will just have to hope that the virus can be kept in check by responsible shopping.

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Unfortunately "behaving well" isn't a feature of many in our society;  and aside from the anti-lock down protesters, we've got the anti-vax brigade.  These Neanderthals could keep this pandemic going for years.     😷

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Seems, if you believe the data; that the highest risk of covid transmission occurs in the Super Market.   Whilst being the only place of public assembly throughout the pandemic and the laxed spacial discipline of most shoppers, this shouldn't be a surprise.   The fact that Finland, with a culture of social distancing has avoided the second wave of covid, should tell us something; but whether that message gets through to the shoppers who walk aimlessly around, bumping into others, is doubtful.       😷

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2 hours ago, Observer II said:

Seems, if you believe the data; that the highest risk of covid transmission occurs in the Super Market.   Whilst being the only place of public assembly throughout the pandemic and the laxed spacial discipline of most shoppers, this shouldn't be a surprise.   The fact that Finland, with a culture of social distancing has avoided the second wave of covid, should tell us something; but whether that message gets through to the shoppers who walk aimlessly around, bumping into others, is doubtful.       😷

Obs where did you find this data please.

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It's probably come from people being asked where they might have picked up the virus. As most people use supermarkets most people would say that they might have picked it up there. However correlation doesn't equal causation. Still if you think that supermarkets are high risk the answer (for you) is avoid them, but don't expect everyone else to.

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As I said Asp;  it's not S/Mkt, it's the idiots who walk round aimlessly -   I spent 15 minutes in the market, dodging 2m away from folk, who just kept coming.  These idiots are probably gagging for a family hugging Xmas - then we'll be back to square one.      😷

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2 hours ago, Observer II said:

News page on Yahoo; it was a report, which I guess with all the other conflicting reports, amounts to fake news.   😷

Thanks Obs. I guess it was linked to this story in the Daily Wail "shows 20% of patients had visited one in the week before testing positive"

The things is that is official data and it is from the PHE Flu and Covid surveillance report. It has been like that for quite a while but the question asked is where have you been close to people in the last 7 days before testing positive. Most adults will have been to buy food, even during the lockdown period, and the report make no inference about where it was picked up. Bear in mind also that masks don't protect the wearer but others from the wearer (the much touted Danish report today being a restatement of what we already knew) and the fact that everyone has to shop for food is exactly why masks have to be worn in shops.

So the news is not fake but the journalism is poor and the conclusion probably not reliable. What came second was Pubs and Restaurants!

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