muttzy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Think we were talking about "ethics" Mutz; you know (or perhaps YOU don't?); things like principles, conviction, belief, integrity etc: not raw electoral opportunism in order to "get elected" (as it has turned out) for it's own sake, rather than any worthwhile program. And it now seems from last night's drubbing, that the electorate are now tired of superficial spin without tangible delivery. I was reminding watching last night's results come in how similar it was to the 80s and early 90s.Local election labour landslides, huge labour opinion poll leads, winning parliamentry by elections all over the place. But then came the wall of the general election As for raw opportunism we'll eventually find out what Cameron is going to offer in terms of policy, that'll be an unveiling worth attending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Ha ha! Always a good laugh seeing the New Labour Tories compare themselves with the Real Tories! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttzy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Ha ha! Always a good laugh seeing the New Labour Tories compare themselves with the Real Tories! Indeed it was a laugh at the time, wasn't much of a laugh when the votes came in at subsequent general elections though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Yer just don't get it, do you Mutz? Getting elected is just part of the equation, elected to do what? We've had ten wasted years, with a continuation of the Thatcher legacy, money being thrown at problems without any improvement, and a bean feast based on an orgy of Government and Individual borrowing, that has now come back to bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Just listening to Bill whatshisname the minister of state for education on Talksport. To listen to him talking it wasn't a bad night for Labour (even though they now have only 24% of the popular vote compared with 25% for the LibDems!!) It was however a bad night for the LibDems and that it will now make people look at Cameron and the Tories more closely and deciode they would still be better off under a Labour Government! How deluded are these bloody people? Labour has taken its worst beating in 40 years and still they think they are unbeatable; Brown made the worst political decision ever when he decided not to have a general election last year and still they think they can win! As someone said earlier.... "if I hear one more minister saying that they will have to start listening to what the people are telling us" I will go bloody mad! The countdown to Labours Eviction starts now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 'Cameron policy' Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I think what we are seeing is a real shift, finally, from the antiquated view that Labour serves the interests of the multitudes and Conservatives serve the interests of the wealthy. What is important is that a government serves its people! The fact that the Lib Dems are 'in second place' for the first time should be a wake up call to both of the punch and judy parties. Lib Dem principles are the basis for the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon1 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Semi Detached Geoff is conspiuous by his absence. Strange really , He now has even more time on his hands now he aint a Parish Councillor . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Suggest you get real Chris: the only reason trad Labour voters vote Lib Dem is as a protest, and the fact that they are usually the only alternative. Don't slip into the misbelief that you have anything to offer Labour core voters, other than an alternative to chastice NEW Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 But that's politics, Obs! You could say that about any party, and any vote swing. If someone is happy with a councillor or an MP they vote for them. If not, they consider the alternatives. Lib Dems have as much to offer - and more in my opinion - than the other two parties. If these dissatisfactions and swings didn't happen you would be complaining that the electorate was too complacent! Once again, you are suggesting that voters, and particularly Labour voters, aren't capable of using their vote appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 A Tory/Labour alliance would quieten the Lib Dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Unfortunately no Chrissy; if only the electorate were so discerning; in the majority of solid Labour areas the vote (and voters!) are quite solid, because (at the moment) there is no viable socialist alternative to NEW Labour. What they tend to do is not vote at all, but there's still sufficient sheep passing through the stalls to keep them in, must be the brand name (they know "NEW" Labour is different, but they can't figure out what's different!). Until, perhaps they scrap the 10p tax rate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Once again, Obs, you are suggesting that voters, and particularly Labour voters, aren't capable of using their vote appropriately. You are saying that the ones who disagree with you are sheep. A tad conceited-no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 A Tory/Labour alliance would quieten the Lib Dems. How about against a Lib/Green alliance, which would become more than the sum of its parts, because it might then truly be able to attract core Labour by becoming the new progressive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Like your suggestion Shelley. The Lib Dems and The Greens share a common understanding of humanity, integrity and environmental responsibility. We could go far together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttzy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 'Cameron policy' Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I think what we are seeing is a real shift, finally, from the antiquated view that Labour serves the interests of the multitudes and Conservatives serve the interests of the wealthy. What is important is that a government serves its people! The fact that the Lib Dems are 'in second place' for the first time should be a wake up call to both of the punch and judy parties. Lib Dem principles are the basis for the way forward. lib dems have no principles, I've lived in several constituencies and the Lib Dems are almost universally loathed by all other parties for their gutter politics and rampant opportunism. Oh, and you came second in 2004, then came third at the general election of 2005.The Lib Dems are a busted flush, the next election will be a straight slug out between Labour and the Tories, and you'll get squeezed on both sides.Personally I'll be rooting for Cameron to wipe the floor with the lib dems in the south- it may result in a Tory government but it'll mean less lib dem MPs. Certainly the lesser of two evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Like your suggestion Shelley. The Lib Dems and The Greens share a common understanding of humanity, integrity and environmental responsibility. We could go far together!Your smoke filled room or mine? Oh yea, we don't do smoke. But seriously, I'd love to meet you some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttzy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Like your suggestion Shelley. The Lib Dems and The Greens share a common understanding of humanity, integrity and environmental responsibility. We could go far together! really? the greens are usually scathing about the Lib Dems.Or they were when I used to subscribe to their press releases.Is Chuck Kennedy still objecting to that windfarm in his constituency? Will you once again drop your support for the fuel escalator the next time a fuel protest starts?Are you still opposing road pricing in Edinburgh and campaigning against road tolls in by elections- despite it being your party's policy? I assume you'll be dropping your opposition to the rail freight terminal at the old parkside site now it's national lib dem policy to 'build more rail freight terminals' You mean that sort of environmental responsibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Yes, that's politics for you. Radicals are always complaining about liberals and vice versa, but they need each other nonetheless. Unfortunately too few realize it. Liberalism needs a radical edge to wake it up, and the Greens could use the moderating influence, and professionalism of the Lib/Dems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 and professionalism of the Lib/Dems. I just splurted coffee all over my keyboard when I read that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Oooh Shelley what are you saying ? Never thought you greens would say something like that. Just goes to show that not everything is quite as it seems sometimes eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Interesting listening to you liberals "playing at it"; the Greens are basically (tree huggers with principles ) however misguided, yet more principled than the LibDems. The Tories (despite Dave's efforts to paint them green) are still the Party of the rich exploitationsionists; and New Labour are naivily trying to play the Tories at their own game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Poor Bazzy. Now he has to go and buy a new keyboard. Please recycle the old one appropriately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVID LLOYD GEORGE II Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Geoff, where have you gone, we are missing you ont he parish council Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Perhaps he rang for a taxi, and has left the building? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted May 3, 2008 Report Share Posted May 3, 2008 Oh Chrissy, you really should read some of the older posts.... that way you would realise that I am the most un eco-friendly person you will ever meet. I own two 3.0 litre gas guzzlers and a few 1960's cars as well (which are not the most planet friendly either. I will never never never be forced into a 1.0 litre roller skate by any namby pamby politician who dictates one thing then goes to cabinet meetings in a 4 ton armoured 4 litre Jaguar. Lead by example or don't lead at all. As for your mate Ming, he was driven to the hotel I was staying in on the seafront at Brighton last year and I beleive he was only staying a few hundred yards further on. Glorious sunny day as well....Just like those idiots who smoke, I'll pay whatever price they put on petrol to keep my cars going because I love driving and until there is a bus stop at the end of my drive thats they way it will be!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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