Pilots on strike

[Milky]

Seems pilots don't earn enough and have gone on strike!

Poor pilots, most earn around £100,000 a year which is more then Doctors, have restricted hours and most of the time computers fly the modern jets 

OK I am jealous but think they earn enough.

[Observer II]

I think their claim is, to share in the profitability of BA. 

[Milky]

27 minutes ago, Observer II said:

I think their claim is, to share in the profitability of BA. 

Still want a big pay increase. Wonder if they be willing to have their pensions cut as the pension fund is several billion in the red?

Just thought I add if there is a profit share scheme surely it should be available to all staff not just a select few?

[asperity]

1 hour ago, Milky said:

Seems pilots don't earn enough and have gone on strike!

Poor pilots, most earn around £100,000 a year which is more then Doctors, have restricted hours and most of the time computers fly the modern jets 

OK I am jealous but think they earn enough.

There's an old story but I think it may shed a light on their claim:

There was a big ship waiting to sail but the engineers couldn't get the main engine to start. They tried every trick they knew but no joy. Eventually the shipowner called in the engine manufacturer who sent one of their engineers to check it out. When the manufacturers man came on board he had a cursory look over the engine, checked that the ship's engineers had set everything up properly, then went to the aft end of the engine, took a small hammer out of his bag and hit a point on the engine with it. "Try it now" he said. The engineers tried starting it and sure enough the engine started first go. The manufacturer's man put the hammer in his bag and left. The ship sailed. The following week the shipowner received an invoice for £10,000 for the work done and was outraged. He got on the phone to the manufacturer: "Your man wasn't on board for more than 10 minutes, and all he did was tap the engine with a little hammer! That can't be worth £10,000!" The engine manufacturer replied "That's £50 for attendance with hammer, £9,950 for knowing which part of the engine to hit with said hammer!"

It isn't necessarily what you do that's worth the pay, sometimes it's having the knowledge how to do it.

[Milky]

6 hours ago, asperity said:

There's an old story but I think it may shed a light on their claim:

There was a big ship waiting to sail but the engineers couldn't get the main engine to start. They tried every trick they knew but no joy. Eventually the shipowner called in the engine manufacturer who sent one of their engineers to check it out. When the manufacturers man came on board he had a cursory look over the engine, checked that the ship's engineers had set everything up properly, then went to the aft end of the engine, took a small hammer out of his bag and hit a point on the engine with it. "Try it now" he said. The engineers tried starting it and sure enough the engine started first go. The manufacturer's man put the hammer in his bag and left. The ship sailed. The following week the shipowner received an invoice for £10,000 for the work done and was outraged. He got on the phone to the manufacturer: "Your man wasn't on board for more than 10 minutes, and all he did was tap the engine with a little hammer! That can't be worth £10,000!" The engine manufacturer replied "That's £50 for attendance with hammer, £9,950 for knowing which part of the engine to hit with said hammer!"

It isn't necessarily what you do that's worth the pay, sometimes it's having the knowledge how to do it.

But did he actually fix the ship or just get it going?

If the pilots get their profit sharing pay rise then others will demand me too and go on strike also. What will happen then, will pilots be trotting up the aisle, serving coffee, will they be loading the luggage or checking people in? The planes will be just as grounded

The problem here is that the industry have not trained enough people to do the job, but that is true of many professions.

 

[asperity]

9 hours ago, Milky said:

But did he actually fix the ship or just get it going?

Yes. They are one and the same thing.

[Milky]

On 9/10/2019 at 8:43 AM, asperity said:

Yes. They are one and the same thing.

Depends on your definition of fixed, if something breaks down again soon after I don't consider it fixed.

I once broke down on the M62, the recovery guy turn up, cleaned a fuel line and off he went, 20 minutes later the truck came to a stop again, it wasn't fixed.

[asperity]

20 hours ago, Milky said:

Depends on your definition of fixed, if something breaks down again soon after I don't consider it fixed.

I once broke down on the M62, the recovery guy turn up, cleaned a fuel line and off he went, 20 minutes later the truck came to a stop again, it wasn't fixed.

Good grief Milky, it's story to make a point not an actual event!!

[Milky]

4 hours ago, asperity said:

Good grief Milky, it's story to make a point not an actual event!!

Got that but your point is not very good.

So what if the pilots are highly knowledgeable they are also just one part in a line, if you give the pilots - who are already very well rewarded - a huge profit sharing pay rise the next people in line will also want the same and the plane can't fly without them either.

[Davy51]

Luckily ,the pilots on my usual airline are so poor they can't afford to strike.

[asperity]

8 hours ago, Milky said:

Got that but your point is not very good.

So what if the pilots are highly knowledgeable they are also just one part in a line, if you give the pilots - who are already very well rewarded - a huge profit sharing pay rise the next people in line will also want the same and the plane can't fly without them either.

And the next thing you know the cleaners will want the same pay as the CEO. Please return to the real world Milky.

As for my point being "not very good", that would be in your opinion.

[Stallard12]

Just booked a transatlantic flight, BA was one of my choices.  Although the present situation will probably be settled before my flight, it did influence my decision and I went with another airline.  Knee jerk reaction I guess, but for the money they charge, I want a warm fuzzy feeling about my plans, not stress.

[Milky]

7 hours ago, asperity said:

And the next thing you know the cleaners will want the same pay as the CEO. Please return to the real world Milky.

 

 

So cleaners don't deserve getting paid?

AS the the story you would think it is valid and I get your point but it takes more then one person to sail a ship a point you don't seem to grasp.

Off topic but CEOs, many earn millions and still do if they fail, yet keep people on minimum wages, zero contract, no pensions  and employ immigrants to keep from paying  for a decent service, then scratch their heads and can't understand why  productivity is poor.

At what point in a business does someone need to be to be treated well, obviously you think cleaners are below you.

 

[asperity]

22 minutes ago, Milky said:

 

So cleaners don't deserve getting paid? When did I say that?

AS the the story you would think it is valid and I get your point but it takes more then one person to sail a ship a point you don't seem to grasp. I think I know a lot more about ships than most people on here (49 years in the Merchant Navy). And the engineer in my little parable wasn't part of the crew!

Off topic but CEOs, many earn millions and still do if they fail, yet keep people on minimum wages, zero contract, no pensions  and employ immigrants to keep from paying  for a decent service, then scratch their heads and can't understand why  productivity is poor. You're painting all companies with the same brush here. I'm sure there are companies that operate like that but I'm also sure that very many companies have to give their employees decent pay and conditions otherwise they would have none.

At what point in a business does someone need to be to be treated well, obviously you think cleaners are below you. Trying to put words in my mouth that I have never uttered. I've never actually employed a cleaner to be fair, but if I did they would get the market rate for a cleaner, not for a company CEO!!

 

 

[Stallard12]

Employees get paid according to their importance to the company.  The reason sports stars and CEO's get paid big bucks is because there are very few who have their skills.  You can pick up a cleaner on any street corner, thus they become the bottom of the pay chain.  This is the reality of business life, they are not charitable organizations.  I get tired of people who have never owned or managed a company, moaning about management pay and benefits or people who have never sailed on a ship second guessing sailors.  If you don't like low pay, make the effort to retrain to a higher level, or start your own company.

[Observer II]

Problem is Tex, there's a huge difference between the theory and the practise: in theory, CEOs are rewarded by shareholders on the basis of increasing profits, thus share values. In practise, a CEO who trashes a company will have a contract that ensures he receives a golden hand shake.  A classic example is the 2008 crash, when the masters of the universe in the City trashed the global financial system,  leaving huge debts for the peasants to pick up through austerity and not one of them has seen the inside of a prison or suffered any personal financial loss..  Once above a certain pay grade, you name your price, no job evaluation  required.

[asperity]

Obs, life isn't fair. If you don't like it find another planet to live on because it isn't going to change on this one any time soon.

[Observer II]

Just observing life's realities, I didn't claim it was fair - far from it.   

[asperity]

Sounds more like a whinge than an observation Obs.

[Observer II]

If wrongs aren't identified, they won't be corrected - that's how civilisation evolves.

[asperity]

9 hours ago, Observer II said:

If wrongs aren't identified, they won't be corrected - that's how civilisation evolves.

So the pay gap is the result of the evolution of civilsation. Sounds logical 😉

[Milky]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:53 PM, Stallard12 said:

Employees get paid according to their importance to the company.  The reason sports stars and CEO's get paid big bucks is because there are very few who have their skills.  You can pick up a cleaner on any street corner, thus they become the bottom of the pay chain.  This is the reality of business life, they are not charitable organizations.  I get tired of people who have never owned or managed a company, moaning about management pay and benefits or people who have never sailed on a ship second guessing sailors.  If you don't like low pay, make the effort to retrain to a higher level, or start your own company.

Firstly we are talking about pay rises here not gaps, well that is the topic of the tread.

If you can pick up a cleaner on a street corner why is there such a shortage of cleaners, care workers and so on?

Why do failed CEOs and football managers walk away with of millions pound pay offs, is it for skillfully bankrupting a company or loosing matches?

Quote

 I get tired of people who have never owned or managed a company, moaning about management pay and benefits or people who have never sailed on a ship second guessing sailors

But OK for you to do it it?

Is anyone going to tell me there are ships with no crews?.  

[Evil Sid]

The Mary Celeste?......

[asperity]

9 hours ago, Milky said:

Firstly we are talking about pay rises here not gaps, well that is the topic of the tread.

If you can pick up a cleaner on a street corner why is there such a shortage of cleaners, care workers and so on?

Why do failed CEOs and football managers walk away with of millions pound pay offs, is it for skillfully bankrupting a company or loosing matches?

But OK for you to do it it?

Is anyone going to tell me there are ships with no crews?.  

https://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/265905/rolls-royce-finferries-present-worlds-1st-fully-autonomous-ferry/

[Evil Sid]

But it still has  a crew, just in case windows decides to update mid voyage.🤭