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Confused52

New HS2 consultation -NPR link

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Last week a new Consultation on Design Refinements for HS2 was published.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/hs2-phase-2b-design-refinement-consultation

The interesting bit is the final change which puts in the ability to add two new junctions close to High Legh. One allows access from Warrington to the line to Manchester and the other gives access to Warrington from London. The significance is that as well as the NPR route from Liverpool via Warrington to Manchester, Leeds and beyond there is a proposal to have native HS2 trains from Liverpool via Warrington to Old Oak Common (for the Elizabeth Line and Heathrow) and Euston.

This could be a significant opportunity for the town but gives us the issue of where will the line go through Warrington and where will the station be sited, much popcorn on the  way?

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They were telling  us on last night's local news that Virgin ,even though  they are losing the west coast franchise , are hoping to start a direct service between  Liverpool & London.

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13 minutes ago, Evil Sid said:

 ok.

 

Lol.  I was referring to the Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything brigade

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 1:59 PM, Davy51 said:

They were telling  us on last night's local news that Virgin ,even though  they are losing the west coast franchise , are hoping to start a direct service between  Liverpool & London.

The details as disclosed are:

Station calls in both directions: Liverpool Lime Street – Liverpool South Parkway – Lichfield Trent Valley – Tamworth – Nuneaton - London Euston

Number of services:

Down Direction - 13 trains (forming an hourly service)

First service 06:36 from London Euston, last service from London Euston 21:36. Our aspiration is for a sub-2h 30m journey time, including station calls. No services from London Euston in the evening peak period.

Up Direction – 11 trains (forming an hourly service)

First service 08:13 from Liverpool Lime Street, last service from Liverpool Lime Street 20:13. Our aspiration is for a sub-2h 30m journey time, including station calls."

This is an Open Access service and they usually get batted back by Virgin but they are presumably applying now because the successor in the West Coast Franchise has no legal way of objecting because they haven't been selected yet!

If I were them I would sell tickets from Warrington via South Parkway as that is not a permitted route on the West Coast Franchise. They could use HSTs as they have to be able to run at 125 mph and they cannot have the Pendolinos. Of course HSTs are more comfortable than Pendolinos with more space in my view.

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I went to the Consultation Event at High Legh yesterday. The location of the two junctions towards us are in the wedge of land south of the M56 in the area bounded by the  M56 . to the West of the A556 and to the North of the A50. The two junction and not the track leading from them towards Liverpool are the subject of the consultation. They are the connection to NPR.

The two junctions will have track heading towards Liverpool which will need to join together before they cross a main road in order to reduce costs and on the Map it looks as if that means crossing the M56 about a mile to a mile and a half East of M56 Junction 7, travelling in the direction of Grappenhall.

The best answer is to put a station to the north end of Arpley Yard connected to Bank Quay Station north facing chord to that Classic Compatible Trains from Carlisle, Preston and Glasgow can call at Warrington NPR before joining HS2 towards Old Oak Common/London Euston. That would mean that the Golborne link to Bamfurlong need not be built at all and Warrington would become an important rail hub with high speed connections to the whole North of England from Liverpool to Newcastle as well as up to Carlisle.

It is this kind of scenario which is what makes Warrington attractive for businesses and will cause the town to grow. It causes the town to be one of the big winners from HS2 but it will take land in South Warrington and through Great Sankey using the route via Fiddlers Ferry where possible. I point out that there is not an official route and I don't "know" anything other that what is in the first paragraph. Nevertheless using my speculation as an example where would others take the route and why?

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Is this going to happen  Confused or is  it an option or is it your opinion of what should happen ?

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33 minutes ago, Davy51 said:

Is this going to happen  Confused or is  it an option or is it your opinion of what should happen ?

The NPR junction to HS2 will almost certainly happen. NPR from Liverpool to Leeds is supposed to be happening but the detailed plans will not published until next year sometime. What I outlined is an option which does meet the council's aspirations as laid out in the fourth Local Transport Plan, LTP4. The paragraph which starts "The best answer …" is what I think is my opinion of what should happen.

That the location of the line as it heads to Liverpool is where I said: crossing the M56 near to the M6 junction is probably inevitable. What is interesting is that whatever you do from there towards Liverpool seems to cause problems with the Local Plan. I hope that is clearer.

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I see . There is also the need to cross the river , will they use the existing railway bridge ,build a new crossing or take up part  of one of the existing road bridges to carry the railway ?

 

 

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9 hours ago, Davy51 said:

I see . There is also the need to cross the river , will they use the existing railway bridge ,build a new crossing or take up part  of one of the existing road bridges to carry the railway ?

 

 

For the HS2 style route between the junctions at High Legh and Liverpool the bridges need to be dedicated to HS2, they will have different technical rail standards so new crossings will be required. The track bed itself is a minimum of 25m wide and the specification normally calls for a minimum dedicated path of 55m wide and preferably 75m wide. The trains will probably run at up to 150mph and may run faster the full HS2 speed is 250mph. Trains will 200m or 400m long, so similar to one or two Pendolinos. Sharing with road bridges would not be possible.

When the track joins on to the West Coat Mainline it is the same standard as that track. So if the two lines join south of Bank Quay Station it can share the same tracks through Bank Quay station.

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