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asperity

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I do wonder why the EU is so willing to grant us an extension to work out a deal and not just an extra month but up to another year.

Could they be worried that Britain leaving without any deal will throw the EU into financial meltdown with most of it's members going bankrupt.

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Think they've done the political and financial maths Sid, unlike our Remoaner MPs; and worked out that the UK crashing out would see the EU crashing in. With most EU Countries on the verge of recession (Italy's already there),  Spain with 30% youth unemployment, French farmers and German car workers on the dole; Ireland cast adrift and to rub salt in, a 20% budget deficit that they would have a battle royal to sort out;   they need us to remain.   So I guess, knowing the state of politics in Parliament and UK Gov, they've decided to give us plenty of lead in the hope that the will of the people will collapse through sheer exhaustion, and we'll all give in and call the whole thing off.  The perfect solution for them, would be some kind of Norway model, where we still pay, but have no say (the Labour solution).  Afraid, unlike 1940, this hasn't been our finest hour.

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I think it's safe to assume that our Remoaner majority of MPs will never allow us to leave the EU, with or without a deal.  The only deal on offer from the EU, is the May deal (which ties us into the EU customs union indefinately).   So I guess we can expect a revocation of article 50 over the Summer and a return to slavery, until 2020, when the Lisbon Treaty will effectively prevent anyone leaving the EU.

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I think if remaining in the EU is the final outcome ,the country should remove the UK Parliament altogether & get direct rule from  Brussels. We don't need two tiers of government if our membership is to be permanent & the money wasted on Westminster could be used in our domestic economy.

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If only that were possible Davy, but the EU is a bureaucracy and the only thing a bureaucracy is good at is increasing its own size and power to the detriment of those it has power over. So instead of the size of the Westminster bubble decreasing, it would in all probablity balloon in inverse ratio to its influence in the whole EU project. We pay more to get less.

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3 hours ago, Observer II said:

I think it's safe to assume that our Remoaner majority of MPs will never allow us to leave the EU, with or without a deal.  The only deal on offer from the EU, is the May deal (which ties us into the EU customs union indefinately).   So I guess we can expect a revocation of article 50 over the Summer and a return to slavery, until 2020, when the Lisbon Treaty will effectively prevent anyone leaving the EU.

The deal (The Withdrawal Agreement) does not tie us into the customs union indefinitely except in the circumstances of deadlock and if the backstop that everyone agrees to avoid comes into force. This is the kind of bending the truth that MPs have used to get us in this mess. The Political Agreement is not binding so is not a deal but Corbyn is too thick to understand even when the vote is only on the Withdrawal Agreement he still goes on about wanting the Customs Union you don't want.

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I feel I have to thank all the leave voters for turning my country into an international laughing stock,  well done.

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The "legal" backstop has been included in the WA (Treaty), presumably at the behest of Eire;  which prevents a unilateral withdrawal from the customs union; thus tying us into the CU , and thus the EU.  TM, or rather her Remoaner civil servants were out negotiated by the EU, because imo, their hearts were never really in the enterprise,  plus we had a majority of Remoaner MPs in Parliament determined to sabotage any deal reached, in order to stop brexit;  thus creating the political pantomime that's turned us into a laughing stock.

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7 hours ago, P J said:

I feel I have to thank all the leave voters for turning my country into an international laughing stock,  well done.

You could say the same about the remain voters, or the none voters all are equally to blame given that criteria, but really the only ones you can reasonably blame are the politicians who have prevaricated and procrastinated us into that position.

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7 hours ago, Observer II said:

The "legal" backstop has been included in the WA (Treaty), presumably at the behest of Eire;  which prevents a unilateral withdrawal from the customs union; thus tying us into the CU , and thus the EU.  TM, or rather her Remoaner civil servants were out negotiated by the EU, because imo, their hearts were never really in the enterprise,  plus we had a majority of Remoaner MPs in Parliament determined to sabotage any deal reached, in order to stop brexit;  thus creating the political pantomime that's turned us into a laughing stock.

The backstop is in the protocol on Northern Ireland and does not apply until we have left and then only when negotiations have failed to reach and agreement after whatever extension of the two year period has been agreed. Again you write as if it were applying from the outset, that is simply wrong. Then you claim being "into the CU and thus the EU"; that too is simply wrong. Norway is in a CU but is not in the EU but there are conditions. The agreement on NI says Customs Territory not Customs Union and by then the UK would have LEFT the EU already, it cannot tie us to what we have left.

Your statement about being out-negotiated because of the civil servants is just a conspiracy theory. The problem is and was the dreadful Article 50 which required future arrangements to be negotiated after leaving. Any country wanting to leave rather than being forced wants to know where it is going before it takes the first step. That is where the MPs are now but Article 50 does not permit it. So those MPs who demand certainty about the outcome of negotiations which we are not even allowed to start have to take a chance and they have decided not to trust anyone at all, so they are all stuck. Yet they clamoured to submit Article 50 to show they wanted to leave. It is a tragedy of gargantuan proportions.

MPs in all but destroying the Royal Prerogative over the last two years have prevented May from just saying we are leaving now and starting negotiations without knowing the final outcome. Corbyn and his mates are refusing to agree the WA without knowing what the outcome of the future negotiations is intended to be and ensuring that no one can change at all later on either side. On the other hand if he get into power he wants to change it. These people are stupid and childish. Frankly it is not the remoaner MPs alone who have turned us into a laughing stock, rather it is just as much the unicorn hunters in the ERG and the DUP who given something that is as close as they can expect to what they want have hung on for absolute victory and now risk losing everything they want because of hubris.

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I'll keep it short, cos we're clearly not going to agree:  "absolute victory" is clearly the only outcome of a binary choice - it's either one or the other.  That was the majority view in the referendum, backed up by the Tory manifesto which spelled out the objective - to leave the single market, leave the customs union and leave the ECoJ.  It's ironic, that all that was required of politicians was to do nothing up to and including 29th March or 12th April, and it would all be over - will of the people fulfilled.

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well you lot voted for it,  you lot should sort it ;)

 

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On 4/11/2019 at 10:33 PM, asperity said:

If only that were possible Davy, but the EU is a bureaucracy and the only thing a bureaucracy is good at is increasing its own size and power to the detriment of those it has power over. So instead of the size of the Westminster bubble decreasing, it would in all probablity balloon in inverse ratio to its influence in the whole EU project. We pay more to get less.

A continuing theme throughout our EU membership.

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