Heat and kitchen ?

[Observer II]

Should MPs be spared a barracking from public demonstrators ?

[asperity]

No. I don't remember any of our MPs speaking up on behalf of Nigel Farage when he's been publicly barracked and assaulted.

[Evil Sid]

Nah it's all part of the rich tapestry of politics and if they are not up to a bit of barracking then they should not become public figures in the first place.

Also it would probably contravene free speech rights, or human rights or some other such. 🤡

[asperity]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/01/08/i-know-how-anna-soubry-feels/

[Bill]

Looks like I'm going to be disagreeing with everyone then.

The level of barracking seen of TV the other day for me went well beyond what many would consider an acceptable level of protest. Obstructing and shouting abuse into someones face is going too far, it's just yobish behaviour that nobody should condone. As for it being ok to do this if they're a MP, no I don't agree with that either.

 

Bill  

[Observer II]

Frankly, these traitors are lucky they haven't been lynched;  20 Tory MPs voted against the Gov in an effort to confound Brexit.  All these Tory MPs stood on a manifesto at the last election to honour the result of the referendum, indeed, so did every Labour MP.  So they clearly lied to the electorate about their true intentions. It is clearly arrogance of the highest order for these politicians to dismiss the view of the majority of electors and the reason imo, that populism has become so popular. 

[Davy51]

I think probably advancement to the upper house or seats in the EU Parliament are uppermost in many MPs minds.

[Observer II]

Doubt it Dave;  this is about control; with politicians thinking they know best and seeking to control events.  It's highlighted the archaic nature of our Parliament and Constitution, which merges the executive (Gov) within the legislature (parliament);  and leads to the legislature trying to operate as the executive, as can be seen in their interference with the Brexit process. Having said that, a clear division of powers also seems to cause problems, as in the US !   Where again, the legislature are seeking to confound the executive.

[Observer II]

It's been said; that the only person to enter the Houses of Parliament with good intentions, was Guy Fawkes !     😉

[Davy51]

The Brexit process has caused so many divisions throughout the public & MPs of all parties & has interfered so much with the running of the day to day business of Parliament that i think a cross party committee or department reporting to Parliament would have been a good option for handling Brexit.

[Observer II]

The problem was imo Dave; that their hearts weren't in it from the start;  they entered negotiations under the cakeist illusion that they could take the good bits and reject the bad bits. Unfortunately they ignored the fact that the EU operates on a strict rules basis IE:  to qualify for the single market you have to accept the four freedoms (including freedom of movement). To have a customs union, you cannot unilaterally arrange trade deals outside the EU.  imo They should have gone for a hard "no deal" Brexit from the start and made preparations accordingly, any concessions that then came from the EU could have been considered on their merits.  Having said that, I don't believe that the EU had any intention of providing anything but a punitive deal, asking for £56billion as their first move and moving to the Irish border issue to confound any mutual arrangement.  We had to be seen by by the rest of the 27 to become worse off, in order to stop anyone else seeking an exit.  As for the despicable MPs;  a majority have sort to sabotage a clean exit from the start, with notions of a Norway option (EFTA); which would keep us in the EU, still paying in, still accepting free movement, but without any political input into the rules we would have to comply with.  Seems the only way forward is a General Election based on the Brexit positions of the Parties, which would hopefully reject remoaner MPs and provide a majority for a no deal Brexit, that equates to the LEAVE we voted for at the referendum..   All this has demonstrated the disconnect between liberal political establishments and the majority of the public, which has now become evident throughout the Western World.

[asperity]

We had the General Election, which both major parties stood in with a Brexit manifesto. The country voted leave in the referendum, we didn't vote "leave under certain circumstances" just LEAVE. So lets stop messing about and GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Observer II]

Agree Asp; BUT "the major parties" and MPs are not complying with the referendum result, which was to LEAVE; not partially leave, but to LEAVE; as in completely OUT.  There was nothing on the ballot form about "a deal";  but the politicians are trying to scotch the will of the people's vote - so it follows that they need evicting from Parliament asap.

[Davy51]

Yes Obs, the EU definitely want to make an example of the UK but you would expect the Mother of all Parliaments not to put up with that & steel their attitude to the Brussels elite.

As for Corbyn ,all he is interested in are the keys to number 10 , so he can start his radical left wing policies & then show his true colours over Europe.

[Latchford Locks]

On 1/9/2019 at 1:17 PM, Bill said:

Looks like I'm going to be disagreeing with everyone then.

The level of barracking seen of TV the other day for me went well beyond what many would consider an acceptable level of protest. Obstructing and shouting abuse into someones face is going too far, it's just yobish behaviour that nobody should condone. As for it being ok to do this if they're a MP, no I don't agree with that either.

 

Bill  

Respect is sadly a thing of the past;

These days folk think the ones who shout loudest get their way.

Reasoned discussion is not an option for these people....

 

[Observer II]

When you have a binary choice (Remain or Leave); there can't be compromise.

[Confused52]

That is not the problem IMO. The protagonists are arguing about different characteristics such as sovereignty and economic well being which cannot be compared in a rational way. Therefore depending on what is uppermost in your priorities you can arrive at wholly different right answers. The lack of respect for the priorities of others means that these things which cannot be rationally compared cause divisions which can only be repaired by choosing a common yardstick. The deeply entrenched opinions of what matters damn us to disagreement.

The only solution is to choose an trusted arbiter which is usually Government or a court. In this case the referendum Parliament chose the arbiter as the people with details provided by the Government. Nobody voted for what kind of Brexit, they expected the Government of the Day to decide. If it hadn't been for the electorate not following up on the Brexit General Election and causing the weakness in Parliament that is what would have happened. However the current MPs are using the parliamentary arithmetic to achieve what they essentially chose not to do by calling the referendum, their behaviour in thwarting the actions of the executive, which they themselves caused to happen, is beyond the pale. None of what they are voting on counts for anything compared with what is in statute law so we will leave. The only question is who will form a Government in the chaos that all side sides will claim was the result of intransigence by the other lot.

The shocking behaviour in Parliament is the fault of the electorate and their utter lack of respect for the institutions which the elite are trying to undermine day by day.

[Davy51]

Mrs May's folly was in calling a General Election. The referendum was fought on just one issue with two possible results, whereas the election was concerned with the everyday problems facing the voters .May was naive to think  leaving the EU would be the only issue in the  general election.

[Observer II]

Not really Dave;  if she had made it a binary election over Brexit, with some comforting one nation Tory rhetoric (as per the Downing Street steps); plus attacking the marxist fantasies of Corbyn;  imo she would have walked it.  Unfortunately, she was ill advised to go off on irrelevant tangents such as getting oldies to fund their own care, a demographic she was relying on.  Brexit has to be resolved before anything else, as it will govern everything that follows.

[Evil Sid]

The problem arises because we as a nation decided to leave the EU. Something that no party really expected to happen and so were ill prepared to deal with. Hence all the bluster in the house.🤔

So really it is the nations fault for voting the way it did, the government cannot be held responsible for the people voting the wrong way they are only trying to make the best of a bad job.🤭

Teresa was just trying to get out of having to deal with the flak from the wrong vote, unfortunately she got re-elected so that ploy did not work and she is stuck with the job until.🤣

 

[asperity]

So instead of Brexit, what the political class want is a new, more intelligent obedient electorate 😏.

[Davy51]

But any election over the next few weeks or months ,like Corbyn wants will not just be about Brexit , every other issue will be involved which will take many leave voters off on a tangent  & could put JC in power.

[Observer II]

Deny democracy and you invite anarchy.

[Observer II]

While the pantomime continues in Parliament;  as we get closer to a default "no deal" Brexit on 27th March;  cracks are starting to appear within the EU.  The Germans have realised that they won't be selling their cars into the UK, The French, Belgians and Dutch their food and wines and Eire is panicking about being boxed into a cul de sac by a hard border.  So, IF it's possible for UK politicians to keep their nerve and stop feeding project fear,  we may find that the EU will soften it's approach, otherwise we crash out with no deal, pay them nothing and leave them to fight over how they can plug a 20% hole in their budget.  Add to this the EU elections in May, where populist, Eurosceptic Parties are predicted to do well;   and we'll discover LEAVE wasn't such a bad idea after all !