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Observer II

"hate crime" ?

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Is the burning of an effigy of Guido Fawkes every 5th Nov, an anti-catholic hate crime ?  Perhaps our hard pressed Police Service could take time off the knife crime epidemic and investigate ? !      :rolleyes:

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They're too busy investigating a video of someone burning a cardboard copy of the Grenfell Tower. Not so much a hate crime, more an offence against common decency and good taste.

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11 hours ago, Observer II said:

Is the burning of an effigy of Guido Fawkes every 5th Nov, an anti-catholic hate crime ?  Perhaps our hard pressed Police Service could take time off the knife crime epidemic and investigate ? !      :rolleyes:

Naah it's not an anti-catholic hate crime...it's just a tradition which dates back to some unsuccessful plot way back in 1605 to blow the House of Lords up...or was it the Houses of Parliament...or is that the same place.   Brain Freeze moment !!

Of course out Police should not take time off tackling modern day knife crimes etc to investigate home made Guy Fawkes sat on the top of bonfires.  Although saying that do people actually make 'Guy Fawkes' these days.  Growing up we always used to and we would also do 'Penny For The Guy' in the run up to Bonfire Night too often pushing him round in a wheel barrow or on a home made go-cart.  I can't remember the last time I ever saw kids doing that .   

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11 hours ago, asperity said:

They're too busy investigating a video of someone burning a cardboard copy of the Grenfell Tower. Not so much a hate crime, more an offence against common decency and good taste.

And so they should have investigated that awful video and I hope they throw the book at them now they have handed themselves in. 
The people who made it, burned it, filmed it and posted it online are all bloody sick, twisted and evil !!  

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7 hours ago, Dizzy said:

And so they should have investigated that awful video and I hope they throw the book at them now they have handed themselves in. 
The people who made it, burned it, filmed it and posted it online are all bloody sick, twisted and evil !!  

And what about the people who routinely use bonfire night to burn effigies of Maggie, Boris, Treason May and other much loved public figures, should they all "have the book thrown at them"? These aren't just posted online, but shown on the Mainstream news channels. Let's get a sense of proportion here and just show these people that they aren't funny or clever, but "throwing the book at them" isn't the way to do it.

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I think the days of the once traditional bonfire are numbered due to safety and environmental issues while the burning of human effigies for whatever reason is part of our brutal historic past best forgotten. Tradition is fine but I think there are instances where after such a long period of time it should be confined to the history books rather than be allowed as an excuse for trouble making. 

 

Bill :)

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I believe the police are now searching the houses of the people involved. I wonder how they managed to get warrants for that. I presume it's all part of "the process is the punishment". Of course alternatively the hard pressed and underfunded constabulary could be doing something more useful like trying to stop the outbreak of knife crime dahn there in that there Lahndan, but that could be problematic for them. Much easier to go rummaging through the personal effects of some tin eared idiots.

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14 hours ago, asperity said:

And what about the people who routinely use bonfire night to burn effigies of Maggie, Boris, Treason May and other much loved public figures, should they all "have the book thrown at them"? These aren't just posted online, but shown on the Mainstream news channels. Let's get a sense of proportion here and just show these people that they aren't funny or clever, but "throwing the book at them" isn't the way to do it.

Blimey Asp how on earth can you compare the burning of effigies of Maggie, Borris, May and other 'much loved' public figures to the awful fire at Grenfell and the horrifying way in which hundreds of people were trapped and died.  

You say "Sense of proportion" ?????  "Show the people they are not funny or clever" ....... IF THEY HAD ONE OUNCE OF SENSE AND COMPASSION THEY WOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT!

So sorry Asp  but if you think that burning a home made replica of Grenfell with little silhouettes of people at the windows and the 'Grenfell' name written on the top is acceptable behaviour then I really don't know what to say.   

Would you do that ?  NO OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T...and WHY?  Because it's just down right sick !!

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PS thanks to whoever gave me a  -red downvote.   I bet PJ is really jealous cos I've finally got one now too  lol ;) 

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6 hours ago, Dizzy said:

PS thanks to whoever gave me a  -red downvote.   I bet PJ is really jealous cos I've finally got one now too  lol ;) 

I suppose the forum admin can’t give people the means to downvote and then complain when they use it.  If you are getting the red ones you must be doing something right. 😄

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8 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Blimey Asp how on earth can you compare the burning of effigies of Maggie, Borris, May and other 'much loved' public figures to the awful fire at Grenfell and the horrifying way in which hundreds of people were trapped and died.  

You say "Sense of proportion" ?????  "Show the people they are not funny or clever" ....... IF THEY HAD ONE OUNCE OF SENSE AND COMPASSION THEY WOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT!

So sorry Asp  but if you think that burning a home made replica of Grenfell with little silhouettes of people at the windows and the 'Grenfell' name written on the top is acceptable behaviour then I really don't know what to say.   

Would you do that ?  NO OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T...and WHY?  Because it's just down right sick !!

I didn't say that I thought it was acceptable behaviour because I don't, any more than I think burning effigies of politicians is acceptable. I even think that burning an effigy of Guy Fawkes is sick behaviour, but you seem to think it's okay for some reason. However I don't think that heavy handed use of the law (and I don't actually think there is a law against being stupid) is the proper use of police resources, given that they claim not to have any. Also stupid is the way politicians like May think it's their job to pronounce their verdict on people being stupid (quite ironic really).

Hundreds of people died in Grenfell? Really? There were only 120 flats in the building, and the final death toll stands at 71, which is horrific enough without overexaggerating the number for effect. Interestingly there was a report yesterday saying that 150 families are still waiting to be rehoused which, given there were only 120 flats in the building, leads to the conclusion that someone is telling porkies.

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Asp, I believe an adjacent building was rendered uninhabitable by the fire but I don't think it was well reported. That is where the extra families came from.

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In the purist sense of burning an effigy on bonfire night , is it any more offensive than the worldwide celebration at Easter of nailing a man to a cross ?

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1 hour ago, Confused52 said:

Asp, I believe an adjacent building was rendered uninhabitable by the fire but I don't think it was well reported. That is where the extra families came from.

Fair enough Confused, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of fraud has been perpertrated on the back of this tradgedy.

 

I notce I've received a downvote for my last post. Someone not liking my opinion but not willing to say why?

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PJ,

No he wasn't telling porkies, he was simply unaware of facts that were not widely reported. I deduce that you did not know either, or you would have helpfully informed the board, so you are not in a position to criticise.

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3 hours ago, Confused52 said:

PJ,

No he wasn't telling porkies, he was simply unaware of facts that were not widely reported. I deduce that you did not know either, or you would have helpfully informed the board, so you are not in a position to criticise.

Perhaps you posted your reply before I read the posts you refer to.  I think you try to be too clever sometimes and miss the obvious.  What Asperity claimed was untrue, telling untruths sort of defines telling porkies.  I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and accept he is ignorant rather than dishonest  😄😄😄

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He does, however, choose to demonize the poor souls who lived through the horror of this avoidable disaster,  victim blaming just like a lot of the media .  They should ALL have been re housed and helped as much as society can.

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Ha ha  more down votes,  thank you.  Won’t be bleating about it like some of you others seem to love me to do.

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Grenfell Tower rehousing:

https://grenfellsupport.org.uk/rehousing-residents-from-grenfell-tower-and-grenfell-walk/

All seems to be nearly sorted. And some stupid people do something tasteless at a private party that some stupid person video'd and shared on social media, enabling some more stupid people to be offended. I don't know what society has become when everybody has to be "offended" by anything, and anybody who isn't suitably "offended" is deemed to be beyond the pale.

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16 hours ago, P J said:

I suppose the forum admin can’t give people the means to downvote and then complain when they use it.  If you are getting the red ones you must be doing something right. 😄

Ahh but I wasn't complaining about being given a red down vote.........if you read my comment again I did actually say 'Thanks' lol.   

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23 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Blimey Asp how on earth can you compare the burning of effigies of Maggie, Borris, May and other 'much loved' public figures to the awful fire at Grenfell and the horrifying way in which hundreds of people were trapped and died.  

You say "Sense of proportion" ?????  "Show the people they are not funny or clever" ....... IF THEY HAD ONE OUNCE OF SENSE AND COMPASSION THEY WOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT!

So sorry Asp  but if you think that burning a home made replica of Grenfell with little silhouettes of people at the windows and the 'Grenfell' name written on the top is acceptable behaviour then I really don't know what to say.   

Would you do that ?  NO OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T...and WHY?  Because it's just down right sick !!

 

15 hours ago, asperity said:

I didn't say that I thought it was acceptable behaviour because I don't, any more than I think burning effigies of politicians is acceptable. I even think that burning an effigy of Guy Fawkes is sick behaviour, but you seem to think it's okay for some reason. However I don't think that heavy handed use of the law (and I don't actually think there is a law against being stupid) is the proper use of police resources, given that they claim not to have any. Also stupid is the way politicians like May think it's their job to pronounce their verdict on people being stupid (quite ironic really).

Hundreds of people died in Grenfell? Really? There were only 120 flats in the building, and the final death toll stands at 71, which is horrific enough without overexaggerating the number for effect. Interestingly there was a report yesterday saying that 150 families are still waiting to be rehoused which, given there were only 120 flats in the building, leads to the conclusion that someone is telling porkies.


The 'Guy Fawkes' saga happened in the 1600's Asp...a very long time ago.... so (in my opinion) I don't really find the burning of a home made effigy of a Fawkes man made and dressed up in dads old jeans and stuffed with straw to be offensive.  Just as I don't find it offensive that people set off fireworks or build bonfires to 'mark' the same event.   I do find fireworks bloody annoying though  with all the mage big bangs though.

And appologies re me saying 100's of people died in Grenfell when as you say it was actually 71.   What I should have said was "71 dead...hundreds injured and every person in that building and nearly including the fire service etc all probably traumatised for life" .

As for reports saying 150 families still waiting to rehomed but there were only 120 flats in the building...could it be that generations of families were living together ie mum and dad living with son/daughter and their own kids  etc.   

I do agree with you though that police resources need to be used properly as they are stretched to the limit as it is..... someone else could throw the book at idiots though through the court system or other means.  

Anyway it's just my own view re the Grenfell effigy burning...we all have different things that rattle us and make us feel sick and appalled...mine is things like that and animal cruelty, cruelty to kids...I could go on an on but then I will get more grumpy the more I think about things that upset and rattle me :(

Nighty night Asp :D x 

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