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Observer II

Deal or No Deal ?

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Just at the moment Obs No leave is looking more likely than No deal with MPs and the EU in a pincer movement. The no deal purists could have had what they wanted by negotiating no deal in the period after we left but hubris caused them to miss the chance.

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1 hour ago, Confused52 said:

Just at the moment Obs No leave is looking more likely than No deal with MPs and the EU in a pincer movement. The no deal purists could have had what they wanted by negotiating no deal in the period after we left but hubris caused them to miss the chance.

Since when were the "no deal purists" in a position to "negotiate" no deal ?    

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12 hours ago, Observer II said:

Since when were the "no deal purists" in a position to "negotiate" no deal ?    

In the future, by waiting until we had left and the future arrangements were being negotiated and then applying pressure to a new PM. Negotiating terms of trade should have been the purpose of that phase and everything was on the table. Now we have to see what is in the detail of the May begging letter to see if she still asks to be able to extend the delay to two years later.

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52 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

In the future, by waiting until we had left and the future arrangements were being negotiated and then applying pressure to a new PM. Negotiating terms of trade should have been the purpose of that phase and everything was on the table. Now we have to see what is in the detail of the May begging letter to see if she still asks to be able to extend the delay to two years later.

no, the backstop was a legal lock on any possibility of us leaving the customs union without THEIR permission  - no escape

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29 minutes ago, Observer II said:

no, the backstop was a legal lock on any possibility of us leaving the customs union without THEIR permission  - no escape

But it only cut in after a period of two years if there was not agreement. They have been preparing for no deal already so they could not fail to agree it if it was proposed as the only way out. Trying to apply the backstop in those circumstances would surely allow the Vienna convention clause which allows the agreement to be set aside since something has changed that no one could predict, i.e. being blocked on a totally different basis to that envisaged during the negotiation of the backstop.

Anyway May has asked for an extension not beyond June and not yet asked for the possibility of a further extension and made it clear that she is going to try to get a third attempt by including confirmation of what is already agreed and further domestic clarification. Bercow can still block it because it is not a substantial change and he may because the PM has not positively enabled a second referendum.

If wonder with trepidation what you will disagree with this time. Make no mistake the hard brexiteers went too far and still risk losing all.

UPDATE- BBC reporting that EU will not agree delay beyond May 23rd unless UK hold EP election and the extension is for two years but could be shortened later. Remainers rubbing hands and Hard Brexiteers launching more rhetoric about letting down the public. PM says MPs have indulged themselves for far too long - well that one is right anyway.

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How the bloody hell is extending Brexit until 30th June going to make any difference.  Gawd all it will mean is we get 3 more months of embarrassing bickering, party point scoring between MP's, parties and government and no agreement on all sides for anything.  It's a waste of blummin' time and will just make us (the UK) and our so called leaders a bigger laughing stock than we are already. 

I'm sick to death of it all and if I could I would just pull the plug myself right now and say 'There You Go...I've Done It For You...BYE BYE EU....NOW LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER AND GET ON WITH LIFE '
 

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On 3/19/2019 at 6:09 PM, Confused52 said:

I am aware of what has been said, unfortunately it said this https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/304.html which refused an appeal on the judgement that the irregularities did not mean that that the submission of Article 50 was invalid. Indeed that was always the case just looking at the EU referendum act. Furthermore referendums can never be binding because Parliament, being sovereign, can always just change its decision. The statement in the quote is plain wrong because the act does not make any such provision because of any error other than in the count itself, however many electoral offences were committed. However wrong it may be, lying in a referendum is not illegal.

So what are you denying with your "No"? It is a constitutional crisis because the speaker is meant to be non-partisan and this one isn't.... he is trying to defeat the will of the government and the ends do not justify the means.

 

The Submission of article 50 is not invalid, but the vote that the submission was based on should be

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1 minute ago, Lt Kije said:

The Submission of article 50 is not invalid, but the vote that the submission was based on should be

I understand your opinion but the law really does not say that it is invalid. Even in elections ,as long as you don't tell lies about your opponent as an individual, you can tell any number of porkies about party policies, and they do!

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1 minute ago, Confused52 said:

I understand your opinion but the law really does not say that it is invalid. Even in elections ,as long as you don't tell lies about your opponent as an individual, you can tell any number of porkies about party policies, and they do!

Not just the porkies, money spent ect, which is still coming to light, 

 

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Unfortunately the EU has been allowed to be "in charge" ever since the pantomime began;  due to a naive, cakeist  approach by the PM and a determination by a majority Remoaner Parliament to, ignore the will of the referendum and strangle Brexit.   One has to wonder how Thatcher would have dealt with the situation ?

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We were told lies in the original referendum in 1975 ,that it would never be more than a trading partnership.

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