Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Observer II

Brexit again -

Recommended Posts

So, since when did LEAVING, mean we keep a foot in the door. OUT is OUT -  totally and cleanly.   All the cakeism that's been floated around by Remoaners, is the main reason the EU has been enabled to dominate the negotiations, they realise our politicians aren't supportive of the Referendum decision, and thus not supportive of the people; so ignore the people and inflict an elitist capitulation. Not a case of dogmatic posturing,  merely a case of fulfilling  the referendum result.  Yes I will bother with "project fear", as we had it throughout the Referendum campaign, and have been fed it daily by the Remoaner media ever since; just waiting for that asteroid heading for the UK,  to be included in their apocalyptical doom mongering.  😄

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 7:40 PM, Observer II said:

So, since when did LEAVING, mean we keep a foot in the door. OUT is OUT -  totally and cleanly.   All the cakeism that's been floated around by Remoaners, is the main reason the EU has been enabled to dominate the negotiations, they realise our politicians aren't supportive of the Referendum decision, and thus not supportive of the people; so ignore the people and inflict an elitist capitulation. Not a case of dogmatic posturing,  merely a case of fulfilling  the referendum result.  Yes I will bother with "project fear", as we had it throughout the Referendum campaign, and have been fed it daily by the Remoaner media ever since; just waiting for that asteroid heading for the UK,  to be included in their apocalyptical doom mongering.  😄

The deal says we are leaving, we will not be members of the EU. What part of leaving do you not get? Have you not read the deal yet? No body said cleanly or instantaneously,why would they it is an insane idea.

The deals difference from your position of masochism, which you want the rest of the population to share, is that the trade with members of the EU will not be disrupted as you seem to want at the end of March. Strangely the EU don't want a complete collapse in trade and whatever else will go wrong on the day when the legal arrangements with EU counties fall off a cliff.  The EU have negotiated in their own interest and if you think rationally you should be able to see that. It has been said by you that their trade with us is so significant they will not want disruption in it. Even having said that over and over you want to stop things dead and leave the EU at a disadvantage by giving us free access for no penalty. It is time to grown up. The EU want a deal or no Brexit they absolutely abhor no deal because they can't be ready for it either, it will cripple Ireland.

The time we remain in the customs union is only the transition period, NO one wants the backstop. The suggestions by the ERG idiots that we aren't leaving is just lies. They need to get real and stop the bullying.

The idiot ERG are facing a parliament which believes it can instruct to government to not accept no deal and the hard line brexiteers are almost certainly going to get Article 50 revoked unless they start to behave more rationally. Remember the DUP will accept revocation and is the only thing that will get a parliamentary margin and keep the tories in power, do you think the tory party want a socialist government too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We started this process by the PM adopting the idea that she could reconcile polarised positions by venturing into "cakeism",  all the demands to LEAVE (as per the referendum result) were clearly spelt out, Leave the single market, leave the customs union and leave the ECJ;  all of which had consequences, as spelt out by the EU.  With a Parliament determined to sabotage any deal from the outset, for Remain and Partisan reasons, the PM has been hog tied throughout.  Labour declared before they knew what was on offer, that they would vote down any agreement, obviously for political reasons, not the national interest, likewise the SNP and LibDems.  Your too right about Eire being crippled, a card that wasn't played. The EU would suffer just as much as we in a no deal scenario, which is why we should have played a strong hand from the start, and let them offer the concessions.  There's an international trade deal available through WTO rules, something they could have worked on for the two years spent saying no to the PMs overtures. If you think the Tories have made a mess of things, it is nothing compared to what we would have with a Corbyn Gov,  all the options between Leave and Remain are worse than either of those options, forcing legal commitments over the Irish border, paying £billions for market access etc, and all with the loss of any political say in the rules inflicted on us. So perhaps we should have a vote of confidence or otherwise in Parliament, via a General Election ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do admire teresa may.

She has been handed a rotten job and has the unenviable task of sorting out some sort of solution.

She has stuck to that job, unlike some of her ministers who jump ship at the first sign of things not being to their liking and despite being sniped at form all sides.

Politicians do not kick up a fuss when they are elected to represent us in parliament so why do they kick up a fuss when asked to represent us on such a issue as our leaving the EU.

Before anybody says because it was all based on lies and misinformation let me remind you we are talking about politicians here, lies and misinformation is the main tool used to get them elected. "vote for me and every household can have a free flying pig on application to the deity of their choice" and other such election campaign promises.

Something to consider for anybody who voted. if the "losers" had their way and overturned the original vote does that then mean that any and all election results can be held up for a revote if you do not agree that the person you wanted to win didn't, or the person you did not want to win did in the case of a "protest" vote.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/13/2018 at 7:10 AM, Evil Sid said:

I do admire teresa may.

She has been handed a rotten job and has the unenviable task of sorting out some sort of solution.

She has stuck to that job, unlike some of her ministers who jump ship at the first sign of things not being to their liking and despite being sniped at form all sides.

Politicians do not kick up a fuss when they are elected to represent us in parliament so why do they kick up a fuss when asked to represent us on such a issue as our leaving the EU.

Before anybody says because it was all based on lies and misinformation let me remind you we are talking about politicians here, lies and misinformation is the main tool used to get them elected. "vote for me and every household can have a free flying pig on application to the deity of their choice" and other such election campaign promises.

Something to consider for anybody who voted. if the "losers" had their way and overturned the original vote does that then mean that any and all election results can be held up for a revote if you do not agree that the person you wanted to win didn't, or the person you did not want to win did in the case of a "protest" vote.

Yes to a point you do have to admire her. However there comes a point when you have to be realistic and realise you need to alter course or give up and sticking with it is no longer a virtue .

What is said about Teresa May is that she does not listen or consult.

She has done a very very bad job of these negotiations, the Galileo situation sums it up, the UK helped build it and finance it, the French decide we should not have access to it, Mrs May surrenders, gets nothing in return. Appalling!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Milky, the British company building it also happens to be a subsidiary of Airbus based in Portsmouth. Airbus is fairly well influenced by the French and German governments as you know and have the right to use all the work already done in the UK. Hard to stop them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Confused52 said:

Milky, the British company building it also happens to be a subsidiary of Airbus based in Portsmouth. Airbus is fairly well influenced by the French and German governments as you know and have the right to use all the work already done in the UK. Hard to stop them.

I thought  Airbus was partly British owned too but maybe I am wrong, However who owns the satellite, I presume the EU who paid for it?

I am often wrong so might be in this case.

Do the British own anything these days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed the BBC and the rest are using the term "Brexiteers" to describe Members of the ERG in Parliament and indeed, anyone who is prepared for a no deal Brexit.  The reality however is, that as both the Tory and Labour Party stood on a ticket of honouring the Referendum vote and leaving the EU, they should be described as "Brexiteers".  Alas, as most MPs of those Parties are Remainers, and have, to varying degrees sort to confound the Referendum decision; they are clearly in Parliament under false pretences, as they are not honouring their own Party manifestos.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am disgusted at the  arrogant attitude of the burghers of the EU towards the UK & i hope that remainers take a salutary lesson from the type of people they want to stay in bed with .Any rescinding of Article 50 would leave SS UK just a short step away from future full EU integration & the irreperable ending of GB as a sovereign nation with full dictat from Brussels . Apart from good,old fashioned gun boat diplomacy i think a WTO departure with ceremonial 2 fingered salute is Britain's best option.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Milky said:

I thought  Airbus was partly British owned too but maybe I am wrong, However who owns the satellite, I presume the EU who paid for it?

I am often wrong so might be in this case.

Do the British own anything these days?

The Galileo Global Navigation System is funded by the EU and has, at present, 18 satellites in orbit with eventually 24 in operation plus 6 spares. The UK has obviously contributed to the cost of the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/15/2018 at 1:06 PM, Confused52 said:

We shouldn't be asking for our money back, we should be telling the EU if they want to continue to benefit from the UKs anti terrorist expertise and although greatly diminished but still valued military then we need access to the satellite

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No wonder we have so many MPs wanting to remain  & wanting to be seen to want to remain when there are quite a few top jobs coming up in the EU polit bureau next year.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wondering if leaving the EU will have any effect on VAT. Wasn't VAT a tax instigated by Common Market rules ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think your right about VAT.    Corbyn's latest, is that he will continue with Brexit and will re-negotiate a better deal, even though the EU have said, that the current May deal is their final offer.  Based on Labour's fantasy deal; we would stay in the single market, stay in the customs union and stay in the ECJ.  We would continue to pay in £billions for the privilage, but without a single political representative with a say in the rules we would have to comply with.  This of course, would confound his ambition to re-nationalise everything, as EU rules wouldn't allow it.  So if we think the Tories are a shambles,  Corbyn is set to take it to a new, lower level !   

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it prudent to give you Labour's official position on Brexit as decided in the Composite Motion at conference:

https://labourlist.org/2018/09/labours-brexit-composite-motion-in-full/

As the Independent notes in the three months since Corbyn has supported the Customs Union but not the Single Market because as Obs points out his views on Nationalisation are incompatible with State Aid rules. Corbyn gave an interview to the Guardian here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/21/jeremy-corbyn-labour-policy-leaving-eu

He is chasing after unicorns and doing immense damage to industry because they see the no deal scenario as now very probable. Labour is putting Party before country to a degree we have never witnessed before. Why on earth does anyone support this bunch of Leninist cretins? Why is the man still leading the Labour Party?!!!!!!!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Davy51 said:

Just wondering if leaving the EU will have any effect on VAT. Wasn't VAT a tax instigated by Common Market rules ?

I think it reasonable to expect that domestic heating fuel may become zero rated instead of 5% which governments have asked Brussels to allow in the past However VAT is here to stay because it currently raises 18% of all government revenue with only Income Tax and National Insurance higher at 25% and 19% respectively. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just a grunt, but I would like to give my take on the tariffs imposed by a no deal Brexit or cliff edge/doomsday/Armageddon as called by some of the experts.

Any tariffs imposed would, I would guess be reciprocated by the UK. Since EU imports to the UK are 3 times the value going the other way, would we not be on a winner there. Also I have heard typical rates of 5-10% quoted. Since the depreciation of the pound by nearly 20%, would the cost of our goods to the EU still be below what they were when the pound was very strong, E 1-35 / £.

These x3 tariffs would be collected purely by the UK government whereas the ones going to the EU will be shared between 27 countries. Another winner. 

There is a lot of talk about goods being more expensive to us as a result of tariffs. How about if they were made here instead of a EU27 country. There would be no tariffs if that was the case, making their brand cheaper to us 66 million than the EU made competitors. Would it encourage foreign countries to set up here?

As for the Irish border issue. What if the UK said that they do not intend checks on anything coming over the border into Northern Ireland, we trust them to carry on as they have been doing for the last couple of decades. However. if the EU27 insist on checking our vehicles going the other way, they are free to build customs posts but they will have to be on the republic side. Our friend Leo might not be too popular with some of his fellow fussy-eaters.

I might be talking a load of rubbish, but what do any more knowledgeable posters reckon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, T F and the Wire said:

I'm just a grunt, 

I might be talking a load of rubbish, but what do any more knowledgeable posters reckon?

I absolutely agree 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...