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algy

Another building allowed to deteriorate to the point where it has had to be demolished.

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PJ, according to WBC's NNDR data it is owned by Park Equity Invest Limited, as is the building next door on Bridge Street (was Prime Time). Park Equity Invest is owned by JM Parking Ltd (of Warrington) and another company with the same directors recently, as in April 2018, took out a mortgage on the former Packet House (137 Bridge Street). I recommend that you simply follow the trail for yourself at the WBC Open Data pages and Companies House. It would seem likely that in the fullness of time a planning application may be made regarding the site and therefore if any councillor makes any comments here they could find themselves unable to take part in decision making. So don't expect a response from Steve.

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16 hours ago, P J said:

If you look k at the top of the Packet House the masonary and brickwork are already becoming unsafe.  The whole frontage seems to be deteriorating.  But there is still time to save it but it won’t save itself.  I foresee a lot of gum gnashing in the future once it’s gone by folk who sat on their hands when they could have done something.  Watch this space 😉

It's been like that for a couple of years now PJ.  I seem to remember Algy posting a photo when the guttering and brickwork first came loose and fell off after a heavy storm and high winds  and bugger all has been done to put it right by the owners since.  Saying that prior to the storm and that damage the upper windows were broken and some left open for a long time before that too letting in the elements and pigeons etc ..there are pics of that too.
I had the land registry docs for it but lost them when my hard drive died a sudden death last year but at the time (from memory) it was owned by the same person who owned the go carting place down Slutchers Lane.  Guess it's changed hands now and someone else will be sitting on it waiting for it to fall down or be bulldozed due to 'health & safety' thus freeing up the land space for a heafty sales profit.  Ah well....

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13 hours ago, Bill said:

The Packet House is another eyesore that I wouldn't mind seeing go. As far as I know it was just one of the many drinking establisments that has failed and no alternative use found for the it, so why is that? Anyone care to enlighten me?


Surley the land/building has value but after such a long period of time the asking price is probabley too high. Whoever owns properties like this should be forced to at least maintain the appearance and if they can't do that then to sell it on at whatever price they can get. Leaving a property derelict in the hope that the vandals will sort it out shouldn't be allowed. 

 


Bill :)
 

Yes it looks a bit of a mess these days Bill but I certainly wouldn't want to see it go.  I'll chain myself to it if they ever do decided to knock it down and the same goes for the wonky roof building next to it. 

I agree that owners should NOT be just allowed to just sit on a building and leave it to go derelict though.  The council do have powers to stop them doing that as mentioned previously and they can force action especially in a conservation area (and Bridge Street and the Packet House building are all part of the conservation area..and nationally/locally listed)...but for some reason the Council never seem to take real action an force owners to maintain or repair. I guess they have their reasons though....

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9 hours ago, Confused52 said:

PJ, according to WBC's NNDR data it is owned by Park Equity Invest Limited, as is the building next door on Bridge Street (was Prime Time). Park Equity Invest is owned by JM Parking Ltd (of Warrington) and another company with the same directors recently, as in April 2018, took out a mortgage on the former Packet House (137 Bridge Street). I recommend that you simply follow the trail for yourself at the WBC Open Data pages and Companies House. It would seem likely that in the fullness of time a planning application may be made regarding the site and therefore if any councillor makes any comments here they could find themselves unable to take part in decision making. So don't expect a response from Steve.

Interesting and thanks for the info Confused52 :wink:

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Dizzy,  there is still time to save this building if people are concerned enough about losing it to do more than post on here.  Not a critisism of you personally, just the general apathy shown in this town and then as soon as something is demolished they are all over social media bleating.  I remember all the hot air regarding the rumoured library closures ( fact is there are more now than then) thousands signed an online petition, 12 turned up at the town hall protest.  

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Diz said;...." I guess they have their reasons though...."

Yes Diz, and from a post I wrote earlier on the news page re the Civic Society, this is what I think are the reasons.......

 

The true reason we have lost so much of our built heritage and that what remains is being left to rot is because we have a council who don’t care a damm about us or our history and who completely ignore their duties and responsibilities as protectors of our heritage and whose only interest appears to be in ‘the value of the land it stands on.’
We have a council who chose to employ a ‘Regeneration Officer’ infamous for his disregard for heritage. Quote from the Chester Sheaf; “Mr Farrell’s thirteen-year reign has been little less than a disaster for this most unique of English cities and Warrington is welcome to him”. The writer gives details; – http://thechestersheaf.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/so-farewell-then-andy-farrell.html
One might wonder that it was incredible that with such a “CV” Mr Farrell actually gained further employment in the field, even more incredible that WBC employed him as ‘Regeneration Officer’ for the Town Centre project! Utterly incredible that after CABE DESIGN heavily criticised and refused to give their support to the Town Centre plans that Warrington Councillors continued, full steam ahead!
The threat to Warrington’s heritage is not from ‘developers from out of town’ it is from ‘planners from out of town’ and shamefully, mostly from Warrington’s own Town Councillors!
If the Civic Society is going to be in any way effective, they firstly need to acknowledge the truth of who/what is the threat to our heritage and be prepared to put up a fight to save it, otherwise what is the point of this group being in existence?

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JM Parking Ltd. Directors, Jeremy Micheal Clarke & Miguel Carlos Corral.

Numerous previous companies; makes interesting reading!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sha said:


The threat to Warrington’s heritage is not from ‘developers from out of town’ it is from ‘planners from out of town’ and shamefully, mostly from Warrington’s own Town Councillors!
If the Civic Society is going to be in any way effective, they firstly need to acknowledge the truth of who/what is the threat to our heritage and be prepared to put up a fight to save it, otherwise what is the point of this group being in existence?

The threat comes from the general apathy from the people of this town.  Sure you are all prepared to rant on social media but when it comes to the crunch you find excuses rather than acting.  You can get thousands to sign online petitions and forums and social media are full of whingers who never took a positive action in the real world in their lives.  I saw it with the library protest,   which you were very vocal about but made excuses about not attending the Town Hall meeting.     You weren't alone, thousands professed support about a dozen turned up.  Even the Civic Society threw their hand in a few weeks ago, voting to disband only for them to try to drag is ineffectual arse out of the skip.  Moaning online cuts no cloth.

 

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PJ.  I agree with you that the general apathy of people is a contributing factor in the decline of our town,  but is it just 'apathy' that makes people reluctant to act?  Half the time, many people have no idea of what is going on.  Would you be surprised if I told you that I have spoken to people who live close to the green fields that are proposed to be developed as per the PDO, people whose lives will be negatively impacted by congestion /pollution and who will likely suffer substantial loss of the value of their homes, who had no idea what the PDO was?  Of those that do know about the proposed developments a great many have only found out through social media and objection campaigners posting leaflets through their doors. WBC are not forthcoming with information and even at the 'consultation' events no clear answers were given. The local press seems reluctant to print anything 'controversial' and often appears to be nothing more than a publicity vehicle for WBC!  Establishment biased online press reports are continually churned out and should these receive critical comments they are quickly removed from view and archived!  Local borough and parish councillors profess to be 'fighting' for the people, whilst in reality are backing the plans! Some people believe the misleading information they are given - after all are our councillors not elected / paid to represent us?

Social media and online petitions have proved effective in the past - for example the Save Warrington Libraries petition had over 10,000 signatures - do you really think this did nothing to persuade WBC to stop the closures?  Why more people don't go to protests I can't say for sure, there must be multiple reasons, perhaps a major one is that they don't believe WBC will take any notice anyway and that the best way to express their protest is through the ballot box and that signing a petition should be enough indication to WBC of their intentions come the next election!   As for myself, I do go to some protest rallies, I also go to some planning meetings, etc.  granted I don't go to all, do you?  However, I can assure you, I don't just 'whinge online'!

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If people don't know about the PDO then they must be living in a bubble of apathy, its been reported on massively at a local level.  The library petition saved nothing as no closures were ever 'proposed' simply looked into as one of several possibilities. Which establishment biased reports do you refer to which are removed or archived?  I am pretty sure none were ever hidden on the Warrington Worldwide site.  During the libraries scare you were extremely vociferous on here trying to get people to turn out for the protest at the town hall.  After I asked if you went and you said no as noone at the Town Hall would listen anyway .  Apathy?

 

p.s. I disagree with your opinion that the town is declining, I feel it's doing quite the opposite.

 

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PJ. The library petition ensured closures were crossed off the 'list of possibilities'. 

A recent report re the Civic society, which contained quotes suggesting the threat to our built heritage was from 'developers outside the town' whilst omitting the fact that the true threat is from WBC themselves, was archived not long after I posted criticism of WBC. I'm surprised you missed this considering how closely you seem to be trolling me!

During the libraries issue, my main concern was for the historic town centre library and plans to destroy its beautiful interior and the slapping of a great glass slug on its exterior!  I am well aware that no-one at the Town Hall would listen to argument re these plans - but I have not descended into apathy, I have found that it is more constructive to bypass WBC and focus higher up the line of power where  there are those who will and do listen!  Not 'apathy' just a change in tactic.

 You say; " I disagree with your opinion that the town is declining, I feel it's doing quite the opposite."  well, from "LocationCallands" that's not surprising!   As destructive to the town as a whole as 'apathy' is the "I'm alright Jack" attitude from areas not directly (as yet) affected!

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1 hour ago, Sha said:

PJ. The library petition 

 You say; " I disagree with your opinion that the town is declining, I feel it's doing quite the opposite."  well, from "LocationCallands" that's not surprising!   As destructive to the town as a whole as 'apathy' is the "I'm alright Jack" attitude from areas not directly (as yet) affected!

Now you have descended into stupidity.  In what way is Callands not affected?  And at least I don’t have to hide where I am from j

Edited by P J

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Sha, You obviously failed to notice the existential threat to the Library, Dentists, Chemists and Play Groups facing the Westbrook Centre with the connivance of WBC. I am sure PJ has noticed that one of his local councillors was backing the destruction whilst another tried to oppose it. I don't know if he engaged in that issue but the development of the town certainly affects Callands with a vengeance, notably the catastrophic growth of Omega and the by-pass of stoppages on the M6 which will afflict Cromwell Avenue when the Western Link is built. Westbrook as a whole has been living with this for decades whilst the south of the town resembled sleepy hollow, but the latter has now woken up after decades of not caring about anything outside the Town Centre apart from itself.

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I'm changing my opinion regarding the old buildings in the town centre, let's have the lot flattened and start again, Bill is correct, these crumbling old hovels are not fit for purpose they are tiny inside and of little architectural value, the shops in bridge street date from the early 1900's with a few exceptions such as the Town Hall and a couple of pubs in Church Street there are few buildings worth saving.  We could save a brick from the Packet House label it and place it in a display case in the museum along with other bricks from the towns old buildings - far more economical and space saving!. I say bring on 'Milton Keynes' and let us create more jobs for window cleaners in the area.

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Bring it on!.

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Milton Keynes! Blimey Algy that's a bit extreem. I used to have an office down there and really didn't like the place. Then again Milton Keynes (unlike Warrington) is a propper new and had very little historical infrastucture to restrict it's layout so while we have quirky, they have a boreing grid system that looks rather like your pile of bricks. BTW just behind where my office was, there was a small field completley surrounded by trees and bushes and this is where they stored all the plastic cows!

I'd just like to see our town looking better, not just with new buildings, but if we keep the old ones they need to maintained and kept tidy rather than become a scuffy shell housing yet another tacky bar or fast food establishment.
 
Definitely pull the Packet House down though, even if Dizzys still chained to it, then make a small park with a statue in her memory and I'll look after the flowers and cut the grass!
 
Bill :)

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Perhaps we're past the point of no return;  old architectural styles are fine, when in the context of similar buildings; but we've failed to create and preserve through conservation areas much of historical value.  Alas, we perhaps need to consider the architectural value of what is replacing them, which generally amounts to lego boxes without any style at all.   :(

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5 hours ago, Bill said:

Definitely pull the Packet House down though, even if Dizzys still chained to it, then make a small park with a statue in her memory and I'll look after the flowers and cut the grass!

If you get artificial grass and some flowers made from recycled plastic that would save you the trouble. you would also have a good display of colour all year round.:|

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