Windrush -

[Davy51]

30 million votes for the referendum, which allegedly had a good turn out ,& 2 general elections doesn't seem to have been a lot of votes cast. Britain is more likely to suffer from voter apathy than electoral fraud. I think one of the biggest attempts to skew the election result was when ,whichever government it was, decided to lower the voting age to get the benefit of 18 to 21 year olds  & their preferences.

[observer]

At the last election the electoral commission says it only found two cases of students voting both at home and at their universities,  now if you want to believe that fine. But in the case of PV,  no one actually knows who actually places the X on the ballot paper, could be a dominant partner, patriarch or relative of a senile voter;   as for the ballot box, if proof of ID is not required,  anyone knowing the intended voter's address and better still, having their registration card, can vote for them. So, whether it is actually happening or not, it would seem to be common sense to implement measures to ensure that it can't happen.      

[asperity]

2 hours ago, fugtifino said:

It's nothing to do with not liking what you say or just disagreeing with you.

You're wrong about this.

I've shown you that you're wrong about this.

Yet you continue wanting to be wrong. It's as if you want to believe the lies.

Either that's wilful ignorance, or it's for some kind of reason.

Of course you don't have to explain yourself to me, but if you don't then I'm going to form my own opinions.

You have shown me to be wrong to your own satisfaction but not to mine, and even if I were to be wrong (which I don't believe I am) that's no cause to call me a liar or even wilfully ignorant. In fact name calling isn't a substitute for producing a convincing argument, which linking to a load of articles which may or may not be correct doesn't convince me one iota. Would you call me a liar if I asserted that the world is flat (which loads of people do) or just mistaken? And of course you can form your own opinions, don't let me stop you.

[fugtifino]

I linked to four articles and posted relevant extracts to save you the trouble of reading them.

I didn't call you a liar.

So, have you got anything to support your view that voter fraud is endemic?

[observer]

What I find amusing, is the way the "cut and post" generation provide links as if they were gospel;  bit like countering a Daily Mail article with one from the Guardian.  At the end of the day it's all "opinion", and everyone's differs, based on their own prejudices, experience or programming.    

[fugtifino]

15 minutes ago, observer said:

What I find amusing, is the way the "cut and post" generation provide links as if they were gospel;  bit like countering a Daily Mail article with one from the Guardian.  At the end of the day it's all "opinion", and everyone's differs, based on their own prejudices, experience or programming.    

I don't provide links as gospel, I provide them as evidence or information to support my view.

What I find amusing are people who will not shift their position when presented with overwhelming evidence contrary to their opinion. Oh, and those who get all their "information" off the telly.

As I've said here more than once, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. If you conflate facts and opinions or regard facts as opinions, that's where you could be going wrong.

[observer]

No such thing as "facts" in politics, at the end of the day, just perceptions, feeding opinions.    

[fugtifino]

5 minutes ago, observer said:

No such thing as "facts" at the end of the day, just perceptions, feeding opinions.    

"No such thing as "facts" at the end of the day..."

I'm just gonna park that there.

Mind you, it does explain all the pigeon chess on here.

[asperity]

1 hour ago, fugtifino said:

I linked to four articles and posted relevant extracts to save you the trouble of reading them.

I didn't call you a liar.

So, have you got anything to support your view that voter fraud is endemic?

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Posted yesterday at 10:56 AM

On 23/04/2018 at 11:19 PM, asperity said:

It appears that, not only in this country, but in the USA voter fraud is endemic and for some obscure reason the left of centre parties are against any form of voter ID being put in place. I wonder why. (When I say left of center parties I include the Tories and the Republican party, otherwise known as RINO).

"It appears that, not only in this country, ... voter fraud is endemic"

That's a lie for which you have no evidence whatsoever.

So yes you did, in effect, call me a liar. Getting bored with your insults now.

[observer]

Thought the pigeons had flown the nest ? !     

[fugtifino]

1 hour ago, asperity said:

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Posted yesterday at 10:56 AM

"It appears that, not only in this country, ... voter fraud is endemic"

That's a lie for which you have no evidence whatsoever.

So yes you did, in effect, call me a liar. Getting bored with your insults now.

"So yes you did, in effect, call me a liar"

So, you can see the difference;it was an implication, not an accusation. You see, I don't think it's your lie, I don't think you've dreamed it up yourself, you've got it from somewhere and you obviously, for some reason, believe it. And, for all the brickbats I get on here, I'd say that's pretty tame.

Bored or unable to support your case?

[fugtifino]

1 hour ago, observer said:

Thought the pigeons had flown the nest ? !     

Nope, you're all still here, merrily crapping all over the boards. See above.

[asperity]

No Fugs, just bored with your attempts at one-upmanship.

[fugtifino]

Don't see why you should consider that's what I'm doing, I'd genuinely like to know why you believe what you do.

Guess it's your prerogative to keep schtum though.

[Confused52]

My point was that there is a penalty in voter id which I don't think is worth paying. The evidence from the electoral commission says that there is not "widespread evidence " of wrongdoing which of itself means that in the UK it cannot be endemic. However it does occur in pockets which are systemic in nature however the real issue is with postal voting and the involvement of candidates or party activists, which should not be allowed in my opinion. Postal Voting is fine if there can be no element of coercion involved. When the idea of voter ID was raised I complained to the idiot who came up with it, one Eric Pickles, who was not even in government at the time but that got me nowhere.

 

[observer]

There was an interview with a W/Indian ex-serviceman on CH4 tonight, who complained he had to pay £90 to secure a nationality certificate.  I thought every ex-serviceman received a discharge certificate which is proof of service and presumably proof of nationality ?       

[Confused52]

Being in the forces would not be sufficient I fear. He will have needed to show he had a right of abode, which requires proof that he resided in the UK at some point between 1960 and 1962, or was born here. That was the exception under  the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962.

[observer]

So do barracks in the UK count ?

[observer]

Amid all the hypocrisy from the Liebour Party over this affair:  hypocrisy, because these mistakes were also being made under previous Liebour Govs:  we're now getting the their motivation, which is basically an open door policy.  They criticise "targets" and "a hostile environment",  well with over an estimated million illegals not even on the HO radar, that's one "target" for a start;  and if a low tolerance for "illegal entry" is considered "hostile", what's the problem, it should be. Now, amid all this hysteria, enter Boris, with the "A" word;  well it had to come, but I thought an amnesty for illegal immigrants would have come from the left, just shows what a complete prat BoJo is.   What we're not getting from HMG or indeed the media, is accurate figures on the number of "illegals" entering the UK, the number that appeal (with the support of HR lawyers funded by legal aid) who then wait years for their cases to be processed, giving them time to establish "a family life";  and finally, we're not being told the numbers who are successfully deported - thus giving us a clear idea of net status of illegal immigration, and thus the kind of "targets" required, and the policy requirements to rectify it.        

[observer]

And right on Q, seems one of our local "illegal migrants" has just been sent down for terrorism !    

[fugtifino]

And this relates to Windrush in what way?

[observer]

Under the general heading of "immigration" policy,  or is that too difficult ?    Meanwhile, we're getting the drip. drip of attacks on Amber Rudd from the libtards, over such things as "targets".  Of course there should have been, should be "targets"; the objective being to deport all "illegal" migrants from the UK asap.     Now we've the added saga, of NHS recruitment; well aside from recruiting and training indigenous people;  any shortfall, can be made up on the basis of temporary, time limited visas (thus legal) for required skills - but it appears that's too difficult for the HO.  

[asperity]

Amber Rudd and drip drip. Well suited to be fair.

[fugtifino]

3 hours ago, observer said:

Under the general heading of "immigration" policy,  or is that too difficult ?    Meanwhile, we're getting the drip. drip of attacks on Amber Rudd from the libtards, over such things as "targets".  Of course there should have been, should be "targets"; the objective being to deport all "illegal" migrants from the UK asap.     Now we've the added saga, of NHS recruitment; well aside from recruiting and training indigenous people;  any shortfall, can be made up on the basis of temporary, time limited visas (thus legal) for required skills - but it appears that's too difficult for the HO.  

Ah, so this is yet another thread about your favourite hobby horse not so cunningly disguised as a thread about something else.

One. Trick. Pony.

[observer]

ERRRM, this windrush saga arose out of civil service incompetence in implementing a clear immigration policy, and possibly due to the lack of a clear policy in the first place.  It has since been used by the opposition as an attack on the very existence of an immigration policy designed to remove illegal entrants to the UK.  Maybe a hobby horse, with good reason, as the majority of the public view it as a priority.