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Gary

Give Warrington town centre a chance!

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16 hours ago, Milky said:

Because you can't.

In order for the market and regeneration to work it needs to attract more people into the town if you don't nothing will have changed.

well you asked for it

18 hours ago, Milky said:

PJ, I hope the new market, cinema and most importantly the new council office are a great success. Yet I will point out something your ignoring, the business model for the market has not changed unless I am missing something, it is just moving into new premises.  You are missing something yes,  here is where your accuracy in comment sadly ends. The pollution caused by demolition is virtually negligible, exhaust emissions are not. You are of course aware that virtually everything which can be salvaged, reused or recycled is processed during a demolition?

Yes demolishing and replacing just one building causes minuscule amount of pollution, so does my car therefore traffic pollution can not be a problem. Simply idiotic guff I'm afraid, you whine about pollution yet see fit to dismiss car exhaust emissions as it suits you to do so as you drive. 

Off topic - Yes I do have a problem with manufacturing actually,, I disagree strongly with shipping things half way across the world just because it is a little cheaper to manufacture them in some sweat shop in a third world country.  Others above have pointed out the holes in this particular gobbet of nonsense.  I would like to add that you are a raging hypocrite unless you have never purchase any items manufactured in a third world country, like perhaps a Chinese phone or have bought anything manufactured.

Not so long ago there was a program on TV (I think it was Newsnight or something) following a Vauxhall engine, which originates in Germany, gets brought over to the UK for a process to be added, then gets taken somewhere else think it was Switzerland then Italy before coming back to the UK to be fitted into a new car, nuts! You are repeating yourself now, so I shall. Others above have pointed out the holes in this particular gobbet of nonsense.  I would like to add that you are a raging hypocrite unless you have never purchase any items manufactured in a third world country, like perhaps a Chinese phone or have bought anything manufactured.

I also find it hard to swallow that I am being told to get on the bus while some people are going to work in helicopters and privet jets, fuel tax free and that is OK, or that might just be jealousy :)Now come on, be honest, who told you that you have to get on a bus?  only your inability to afford luxury forms of travel inhibits you doing so, so yes simple jealousy.  If you wanted the finer things in life perhaps you should have tried or worked harder instead of looking for things to whinge about.

 

If the human race paid any attention to idiotic views such as yours, we would all still be living in a cave.

 

Happy now?

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7 minutes ago, grey_man said:

I have. I don't just sit around whinging thousands of times on here like some people. I always go to source. 

They won't say.

So, they've gone from publicising the costs in support of a business case, to increasing them (still in support of a weaker but viable business case) to pretending they don't exist.

Occam's Razor leads to one conclusion. The business case has gone. 

As for all the other stuff in your post - it's just your usual straw man stuff full of things I never said, so I'll ignore that bit. 

BTW, somebody should have told the city of culture bid team that the town already has two 'municipal theatres'. It would have helped the bid no end and I can't believe they overlooked the facts you've  just made up  supplied.  
 

Parr Hall and Pyramid Arts centre spring to mind.

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seems we have two posters determined to run the town down, one who doesn't use it and one who lives miles away,   figures really.

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1 hour ago, P J said:

Parr Hall and Pyramid Arts centre spring to mind.

The Parr Hall isn't a theatre at all (and doesn't claim to be) and the Pyramid is an arts centre that is capable of staging small shows. The space is comparable to those found in some local schools and FE facilities.

Local theatre groups, which include my family members and friends, have to go to Runcorn to stage anything significant. Local cultural groups and people within the council have been raising this issue for years so why you're claiming that there have been two theatres in the town all along is baffling. 

You're making it far too easy. Which is why you end up resorting to straw man arguments and personal comments. 

The only people running the town down are those with low expectations for it. 

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Ever the pedant.  The Parr Hall puts on many shows , as Does the Pyramid Arts Centre.  I see now the reason behind your obsession about a new theatre, personal selfishness.  So sad that local theatre groups have to travel many many miles to Runcorn to stage a show at their venue of choice, other theatre groups design and stage their shows to suit their facilities.  What then is rhe Parr Hall?  It was a concert hall and now stages a huge variety of shows.  Not saying it's the old Vic but it's a good venue.  If you are so certain of the demand for a theatre and confident it will be profitable enough to survive, open one in Warrington yourself and don't ask Warrington  people to fund your vanity project .  I would love a private theatre in the town.   Many theatres and most of the best ones are not council owned or funded.

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More straw men and personal comments. And you've answered your own question about the Parr Hall.

Now that you've raised the subject, there is already a vanity project in the middle of the new development and it is being funded by the people of Warrington. So if you object to that sort of thing, then we agree on something.   

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Ah I see, vanity projects are only acceptable if they are your vanity projects, things are clearer now thank you and what subject, pray tell, did I raise? 😄

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You raised the subject of vanity projects. Of course, you've done your usual feeble attempt at creating a straw man argument, because I agree with you that a theatre should be commercially viable. There you go. Something else we agree on. 

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16 hours ago, Confused52 said:

Sorry but they really are specialized. Each element is optimised and achieves the lowest cost by producing the largest volume possible with different models sharing common components to the greatest extent practical. Whilst any manufacturer has a large enough market to do this the world will not go back to cottage industries. The reality is that our prosperity depends on the economies of scale and without them prices would rise dramatically and our standard of living would plummet. The doomsayers are generally trying to frighten us all enough to make us want to return to the stone age as communists, don't listen as that way lies madness!

I bow to your superior knowledge, I know Porsche  manufacture their engines in one facility.

17 hours ago, T F and the Wire said:

I went into town on Sunday for a look around the Makers market. It looked great, lots of families browsing, buying and eating in the Queens gardens. There was also a ballet on at the Parr Hall. Nipped into Golden sq which was almost as busy as a Saturday.  Didn't cost me a penny to park.

You whingers need to try it sometime, you could do it when you are placing flowers on the site of the Manx Arms.

So nothing needs to change?

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6 hours ago, P J said:

seems we have two posters determined to run the town down, one who doesn't use it and one who lives miles away,   figures really.

 

I am not running the town down, I just feel spending £100 million pounds plus on an office block and a cinema with the hope it would regenerate the town is a gamble. If I had £100 million to spend I would be doing something along the river front.

 

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7 hours ago, P J said:

well you asked for it

Happy now?

demolition and building materiel;s account for about 30% per year of land fill materiel and recycling materials is energy intensive.

 

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12 minutes ago, Milky said:

demolition and building materiel;s account for about 30% per year of land fill materiel and recycling materials is energy intensive.

 

care to share the figures for air pollution?

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1 hour ago, Milky said:

demolition and building materiel;s account for about 30% per year of land fill materiel and recycling materials is energy intensive.

 

And I am sure you are aware that every bit of landfill created by these industries is subject to a Landfill Tax?  

 

 

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3 hours ago, grey_man said:

You raised the subject of vanity projects. Of course, you've done your usual feeble attempt at creating a straw man argument, because I agree with you that a theatre should be commercially viable. There you go. Something else we agree on. 

Priceless, nobody uses the straw man more than yourself, it's your favourite ploy after avoidance.

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2 hours ago, Milky said:

 

I am not running the town down, I just feel spending £100 million pounds plus on an office block and a cinema with the hope it would regenerate the town is a gamble. If I had £100 million to spend I would be doing something along the river front.

 

What??? And destroy all that habitat for wildlife and create pollution and landfill?? 

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1 hour ago, P J said:

Priceless, nobody uses the straw man more than yourself, it's your favourite ploy after avoidance.

Even that straw man is a straw man - because I've just agreed with you.

I've got to hand it to you. I guess that's how you manage to rack up thousands and thousands of posts by constantly misrepresenting what people say and then whinging on till they admit you can have the last word. Not big on irony though, are you?


 

 

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Oh dear, skrikes about apparent personal comments and the use of strawmen arguments, yet is perfectly happy to use them willy nilly. At least I won't go bleating to the admin Greyman as some of the more spineless posters do.  

 

So back to square one.  Isn't the new market development catering for local businesses, shops, bars, cafes and restaurants? 

 

What I did love about your last post was the use of the Nicholson character from as good as it gets as your vehicle, I see you as the egomaniacally,  messed up and obnoxious partt he played, without the charisma and success of course.  :D

 

Anyway, off to find a local forum in a town I don't live in and slag off their council. 

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do you need a bar in a market? considering all the public houses in the vicinity seems a bit odd. a place selling home brew kits and the like i can understand but not the bar.

Same goes for a restaurant. a cafe or two yes but a restaurant? can see many people going for a three course meal on a saturday morning and unless they price their fare at a very low price they will not get a lot of dinner time trade either. several public house offer reasonable meals usually with two for a tenner offers and the like.

but then again maybe it is the growing trend of the younger generation to want these things or have been told they want them. (it's trendy and the thing to do kids)

well i shall wait for it to be finished before passing any real judgement, who knows it may be a raging success. I will await with anticipation.

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23 minutes ago, Evil Sid said:

do you need a bar in a market? considering all the public houses in the vicinity seems a bit odd. a place selling home brew kits and the like i can understand but not the bar.

Same goes for a restaurant. a cafe or two yes but a restaurant? can see many people going for a three course meal on a saturday morning and unless they price their fare at a very low price they will not get a lot of dinner time trade either. several public house offer reasonable meals usually with two for a tenner offers and the like.

but then again maybe it is the growing trend of the younger generation to want these things or have been told they want them. (it's trendy and the thing to do kids)

well i shall wait for it to be finished before passing any real judgement, who knows it may be a raging success. I will await with anticipation.

The real ale shack in the old market did really well Sid and has continued that success into the new temporary market, look at it as a sort of Dad crèche :wink:  The food offerings in the temp market are also much more varied than a greasy spoon ( nothing against a fry up btw) There is a guy at Get Stuffed who does carvery which is lovely, Café at the end of the universe does great burgers,  there's  Indian, Thai, Chinese, Italian.   Dreamshakes do great coffees at great prices compared to the chain coffee houses and there is even a stall selling high quality toasted cheese sandwiches which are really good.  The food hall , in my opinion , is a fantastic place to eat and its free parking to boot. pop in today at lunchtime and treat yourself :D

 

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On 5/18/2018 at 2:24 PM, P J said:

care to share the figures for air pollution?

I shall look them up, care to share yours?

On 5/18/2018 at 3:48 PM, P J said:

What??? And destroy all that habitat for wildlife and create pollution and landfill?? 

 

Well no, there is already retail, empty offices and industrial units around there that can be used, there used to be a building there that could possibly have been used as a cinema maybe, now there is vacant land and you can put boats or moor a ship on the river (could you get a small ship up the Mersey?)

 

17 hours ago, P J said:

The real ale shack in the old market did really well Sid and has continued that success into the new temporary market, look at it as a sort of Dad crèche :wink:  The food offerings in the temp market are also much more varied than a greasy spoon ( nothing against a fry up btw) There is a guy at Get Stuffed who does carvery which is lovely, Café at the end of the universe does great burgers,  there's  Indian, Thai, Chinese, Italian.   Dreamshakes do great coffees at great prices compared to the chain coffee houses and there is even a stall selling high quality toasted cheese sandwiches which are really good.  The food hall , in my opinion , is a fantastic place to eat and its free parking to boot. pop in today at lunchtime and treat yourself :D

 

Really? I have been to the milk shake bar, took my niece there a couple weeks ago, not aware of the carvery or the burgers. Your tempting me PJ, is it a take away?

There used to be a take away carvery place in the old market, I think, on the left by the main entrance, but closed down ages ago.

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6 hours ago, Milky said:

 

I shall look them up, care to share yours?

 

Well no, there is already retail, empty offices and industrial units around there that can be used, there used to be a building there that could possibly have been used as a cinema maybe, now there is vacant land and you can put boats or moor a ship on the river (could you get a small ship up the Mersey?)

 

Really? I have been to the milk shake bar, took my niece there a couple weeks ago, not aware of the carvery or the burgers. Your tempting me PJ, is it a take away?

There used to be a take away carvery place in the old market, I think, on the left by the main entrance, but closed down ages ago.

The carveryis called Get Stuffed and does takeaway or eat in at the food court. It is the leftmost shop.  The burger shop is in the corner .  Give them a try,  they are fab.

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5 hours ago, P J said:

The carveryis called Get Stuffed and does takeaway or eat in at the food court. It is the leftmost shop.  The burger shop is in the corner .  Give them a try,  they are fab.

The closing times are a bit early, just looked them up and because of mobility issues of a relative who insists on coming to town with me but refuses to use a wheel chair or her electric scooter means the new market is in an awkward position. The old market nearer the car park and the bridge over the road meant it was far more accessible.

BUt I will try and get there one day soon, if I tell them PJ sent me will I get a discount?

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You won't need a discount, the prices are very reasonable.  Once the new market opens access will be a lot easier and I hear there store plans to change the opening hours offering later opening etc.

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I have seen this and the other shops in the food court. However good they are the size is small and there is already competition. How will a larger market with potentially larger stalls make a significant impact on the attractiveness of Warrington as a shopping destination PJ?

I still do not see any way that the current grocery offering caters for anyone other than bus travellers. The problem is that bus travellers can't carry much so the value of their shopping basket is low and the turnover they support is also low. As far as I can tell that is why M&S left, they are pushing to get shopping basket values up at their shops to generate higher profits. I don't think you can't leave your shopping trolley in a park in the GS car park like you used to be able to in the old one or am I wrong on that?

Without a grocery offering the current planning tests that stop places like ASDA just expanding their grocery space are inappropriate because they are intended to protect grocery provision in the Town centre which is pretty anaemic. So how do we get convenient access for car users for larger shopping baskets? Lets think of practical solutions like not having car parks in places that mean you have to cross roads to get to pedestrian areas. Shared trolley return stands and using the same trolley for all shops so you can have a trolley deposit (to prevent theft and littering) but still take the first trolley in the chain (this requires a common owner). These are things the council needs to be involved in but it doesn't actually get it. That is why people criticise the council for being uninventive and sometimes interested only it itself.

If we are only to have district centres for groceries then there will be no effective competition between the main supermarkets to meet the needs of the elderly and those without cars because they can't reach more than one by bus at reasonable cost in time or money.

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