observer Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 The report on the Manchester Arena bombing appears confused in it's criticism of the Fire Service's two hour delay in attending. Protocol in these incidents requires that the Police are responsible for command and control, and for neutralising terrorist presence in a given area, prior to other emergency services entering said area. So yet more headless chicken reaction methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 There was a time when hesitation would not be an issue at times of emergency but the love of the British public & employers of safe systems of work has hamstrung even emergency services on the twin altars of Health & Safety & compensation culture.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 Dave, the firefighters are there to fight fires, not terrorists. The duty of making an area secure (of armed terrorists) rests with the (armed) Police. What seems to have happened in this instance, is that the Senior Police Command did not declare the area safe and failed to inform other service controls. Had this occurred, other services would have been committed immediately to the incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 If there is any blame to be apportioned for this act of terrorism it should be placed at the door of the terrorist and any organisation/belief system that encouraged him. It's all very well using 20/20 hindsight but it doesn't address the underlying problem. The PTB seem very adept at banning American/Canadian Christians for their supposed "extremist" views while turning a blind eye to hundreds of extremist Jihadists returning from the ME conflict. I'm totally confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 Let's take another small scale example; an armed nutter holds a family under siege in a house, and then sets it on fire. First of all the Police have to neutralise the nutter, once done, they can allow in the firefighters. As for your wider point ASP, our border and immigration policies are a complete joke - on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 In the case of Lauren Southern, she was stopped by Immigration Officials in Calais and handed over by them to Kent Police, who held her under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. Apparently they didn't like her opinions. So having an opinion the police don't like is now a terrorist act. You couldn't make it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 Was she a member of Britain First or something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 No she has nothing to do with any British organisation. However she was going to interview Tommy Robinson which is, for some reason, a red flag to the establishment. At the moment she is doing a documentary on the white genocide in South Africa, which is being ignored by our media because to report on it would be "racist". The world has gone mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 What happened to the alleged far right bloke from Warrington who was arrested round Christmas time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 They charged him with religious bias and confiscated his reindeer and sleigh ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Davy51 said: What happened to the alleged far right bloke from Warrington who was arrested round Christmas time ? You mean this charmer? "Police said Christopher Lythgoe, 31, from Warrington, Cheshire, had been charged with encouragement to murder the Labour MP for West Lancashire, Rosie Cooper." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/26/men-charged-members-banned-neo-nazi-group-national-action Oh, and "alleged"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/2017/10/27/warrington-based-neo-nazi-group-accused-of-terror-plot-to-kill-labour-mp/ Warrington Worldwide called him "alleged leader" of the group at the time of his arrest. Just saying, because anyone who hadn't seen any further news of him after that event would be thinking it was just an allegation. The court case has shown that he is, indeed, a charmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Davy used the phrase "alleged far right bloke". I don't think there's any doubt about him being far right, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Fugs, The proscribed organisation is described as racist and anti-Semitic with neo-Nazi as the summary. I worry about the left/right game of labelling anything right of Lenin right wing, the classical left/right split has broken down rather and it is better to describe groups by what they believe or do rather than allowing lazy slurs. Brexit is an example where left/right splits just don't work at all and can result in unintended offence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Confs, Thanks for the patronising edification, though maybe you should also direct it at Davy, as it was him who started it. And, if there's anyone out there who doesn't consider Christopher Lythgoe to be a RWNJ, then they're worse than a thousand Hitlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Is this what they call "identity politics" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Well since the article about the alleged far right bloke being arrested i haven't heard any more about the news report. Has he been tried & sent down by any chance ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 A so-called judge has set the alleged trial to be on a date after 9th April this year: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/03/alleged-neo-nazi-trial-next-year-machete-murder-plot-national-action-labour-mp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 4 hours ago, fugtifino said: Davy used the phrase "alleged far right bloke". I don't think there's any doubt about him being far right, do you? With the benefit of further investigation and reporting that would seem to be beyond doubt. However at the time of his arrest it was merely an allegation, as the Guardian article you link to states. Even alleged Neo-Nazis are innocent until proven guilty, unless the law has been changed already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 I think the word "alleged" is very handy to deflect comments as coming from another source. We can't really refer to the man as "so called" because Islamic State seem to have the monopoly on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 The terms "left" and "right" appear to have lost all relevance nowadays, as we being told that the left of the Labour Party are being blamed for anti-Semitism within the Party, as anti-Semitism is normally associated with the far right, one is understandably confused. However, a healthy dose of cynicism will allow folk to deduce, that the anti-Semitism scare has been introduced by Labour's right wing, in order to generate a purge of the Corbyn supporting "lefties", who have taken over the Party and who, in the main, will be anti-Israeli, rather than anti-Semite. All part of the new identity politics, where name calling is a convenient substitute for accuracy, as both Jews AND Palastinian Arabs are racially Semites, it's merely their religions that differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Famously Soviet Russia (arguably left wing) was anti-semitic as was National Socialist (Nazi) left wing Germany. You're right about the identity politics. It's not what you believe, it's what you say that matters these days. Sad times indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 I might be wrong, but I'm sensing some support here, on Warrington World Wide (that means everyone in the world can see you) , for [alleged] RWNJ Christoper Lythgoe. Patriotic Son of Warrington, or racist scum? You decide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 I think it's fair to say that Left wing & Right wing are just 2 sides of the same coin but separated by a period of time. Most popular revolutions start as left wing affairs but can soon turn into right wing dictatorships. No matter what is done in the name of the people will usually attract brutal suppression by the strongest self serving elements of that society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 Fugs, I don't detect the support you suggest. I reacted originally because you appeared to be making the assumption that racists were automatically right wing, many suggest the association is the other way round. The point I wanted to make is that it is unsafe to link right or left wing politics to racism and that as Asp points out racism appears to be orthogonal to political belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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