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More headless chicken reaction -

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The report on the Manchester Arena bombing appears confused in it's criticism of the Fire Service's two hour delay in attending.  Protocol in these incidents requires that the Police are responsible for command and control, and for neutralising terrorist presence in a given area, prior to other emergency services entering said area.  So yet more headless chicken reaction methinks.        :ph34r:

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There was a time when hesitation would not be an issue at times of emergency but the love of the British public & employers  of safe systems of work has hamstrung even emergency services on the twin altars of Health & Safety &  compensation culture..

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Dave, the firefighters are there to fight fires, not terrorists. The duty of making an area secure (of armed terrorists) rests with the (armed) Police. What seems to have happened in this instance, is that the Senior Police Command did not declare the area safe and failed to inform other service controls.  Had this occurred, other services would have been committed immediately to the incident.   :ph34r:

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If there is any blame to be apportioned for this act of terrorism it should be placed at the door of the terrorist and any organisation/belief system that encouraged him. It's all very well using 20/20 hindsight but it doesn't address the underlying problem. The PTB seem very adept at banning American/Canadian Christians for their supposed "extremist" views while turning a blind eye to hundreds of extremist Jihadists returning from the ME conflict. I'm totally confused.

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Let's take another small scale example; an armed nutter holds a family under siege in a house, and then sets it on fire.  First of all the Police have to neutralise the nutter, once done, they can allow in the firefighters. As for your wider point ASP, our border and immigration policies are a complete joke - on us.  :ph34r:

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In the case of Lauren Southern, she was stopped by Immigration Officials in Calais and handed over by them to Kent Police, who held her under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. Apparently they didn't like her opinions. So having an opinion the police don't like is now a terrorist act. You couldn't make it up.

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No she has nothing to do with any British organisation. However she was going to interview Tommy Robinson which is, for some reason, a red flag to the establishment. At the moment she is doing a documentary on the white genocide in South Africa, which is being ignored by our media because to report on it would be "racist". The world has gone mad.

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What happened to the alleged far right bloke from Warrington who was arrested round Christmas time ?

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2 hours ago, Davy51 said:

What happened to the alleged far right bloke from Warrington who was arrested round Christmas time ?

You mean this charmer?

"Police said Christopher Lythgoe, 31, from Warrington, Cheshire, had been charged with encouragement to murder the Labour MP for West Lancashire, Rosie Cooper."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/26/men-charged-members-banned-neo-nazi-group-national-action

Oh, and "alleged"?

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http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/2017/10/27/warrington-based-neo-nazi-group-accused-of-terror-plot-to-kill-labour-mp/

 

Warrington Worldwide called him "alleged leader" of the group at the time of his arrest. Just saying, because anyone who hadn't seen any further news of him after that event would be thinking it was just an allegation. The court case has shown that he is, indeed, a charmer.

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Davy used the phrase "alleged far right bloke".

I don't think there's any doubt about him being far right, do you?

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Fugs,

The proscribed organisation is described as racist and anti-Semitic with neo-Nazi as the summary. I worry about the left/right game of labelling anything right of Lenin right wing, the classical left/right split has broken down rather and it is better to describe groups by what they believe or do rather than allowing lazy slurs. Brexit is an example where left/right splits just don't work at all and can result in unintended offence.

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Confs,

Thanks for the patronising edification, though maybe you should also direct it at Davy, as it was him who started it.

And, if there's anyone out there who doesn't consider Christopher Lythgoe to be a RWNJ, then they're worse than a thousand Hitlers.

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Well since the article about the alleged far right bloke being arrested  i haven't heard any more about the news report. Has he been tried & sent down  by any chance ?

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4 hours ago, fugtifino said:

Davy used the phrase "alleged far right bloke".

I don't think there's any doubt about him being far right, do you?

With the benefit of further investigation and reporting that would seem to be beyond doubt. However at the time of his arrest it was merely an allegation, as the Guardian article you link to states. Even alleged Neo-Nazis are innocent until proven guilty, unless the law has been changed already.

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I think the word  "alleged" is very handy  to deflect comments as coming from another source. We can't really refer to the man as "so called" because Islamic State seem to have the monopoly on that.

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The terms "left" and "right" appear to have lost all relevance nowadays, as we being told that the left of the Labour Party are being blamed for anti-Semitism within the Party, as anti-Semitism is normally associated with the far right, one is understandably confused.  However, a healthy dose of cynicism will allow folk to deduce, that the anti-Semitism scare has been introduced by Labour's right wing, in order to generate a purge of the Corbyn supporting "lefties", who have taken over the Party and who, in the main, will be anti-Israeli, rather than anti-Semite.  All part of the new identity politics, where name calling is a convenient substitute for accuracy, as both Jews AND Palastinian Arabs are racially Semites, it's merely their religions that differ.    :ph34r:

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Famously Soviet Russia (arguably left wing) was anti-semitic as was National Socialist (Nazi) left wing Germany.

You're right about the identity politics. It's not what you believe, it's what you say that matters these days. Sad times indeed.

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I might be wrong, but I'm sensing some support here, on Warrington World Wide (that means everyone in the world can see you) , for [alleged] RWNJ Christoper Lythgoe.

Patriotic Son of Warrington, or racist scum?

You decide.

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I think it's fair to say that Left wing & Right wing are  just 2 sides of the same coin  but separated by a period of  time. Most  popular revolutions  start as left wing affairs but can soon  turn into right wing dictatorships. No matter what is done in the name of the people  will usually  attract  brutal suppression by the strongest self serving elements of that society.

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Fugs, I don't detect the support you suggest. I reacted originally because you appeared to be making the assumption that racists were automatically right wing, many suggest the association is the other way round. The point I wanted to make is that it is unsafe to link right or left wing politics to racism and that as Asp points out racism appears to be orthogonal to political belief.

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