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Spy games ?

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Well it is ever clearer that it was the Russians isn't it? The OPCW results are due in around a week and they will eventually ask Russia for a sample of what they have. They will now be searching round for samples to give to the OPCW which have different isotopic composition in the precursors from the ones used in the  Salisbury compounds to get off the hook, I expect Porton Down will have given OPCW samples of our detector test samples which will not match. That could be the step Russia wanted to avoid ,because it would prove that their disinformation was just scurrilous. However their stock piles of the agent will now have to be destroyed because they can't avoid questions being asked formally from the OPCW after today. Their offer of a joint investigation essentially admits that they do have the agent because otherwise they had nothing to bargain with.

Meanwhile Corbyn appears to be nothing more than a Russian stooge, why is the Labour party putting up with that?

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Sorry, but no irrefutable evidence has been produced to-date, all we have is conjecture and the wild accusations of a pompous ex-public schoolboy, who wouldn'y have been out of place leading the 600 at Balaclava.  Meanwhile, Corbyn is merely awaiting such irrefutable proof, before jumping on a bandwagon, such composure is rare in a politician nowadays, and the huge risk is - he may be proved right.   :ph34r:

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The criminal standard is beyond reasonable doubt which is lower than beyond refute. Mr Corbyn is merely parroting the Kremlin drivel as I said. Such composure is normal for a Russian stooge. It is easy to not be proved wrong if one asserts that the impossible must be performed, that is not wise but duplicitous.

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Again sorry, but your slipping into Hollywood rules, which allow guilt to be awarded merely on the basis of accusation, backed up by the acclaim of the social media mob.  Any professional investigation would be evidence led, not politically or emotionally contrived.   :ph34r:

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I don't do Hollywood rules. I have been informed by reading statements at the OPCW meetings, the briefings from our Ambassador in Moscow and latterly watching the meeting in the UN security council live and not summarised by the BBC.

The big mistake by the UK was using twitter at all, but these days that seems unavoidable.

The stuff is so dangerous it can only be made in facilities with funding and expertise which is known only to exist in three laboratories in the world. A Russian scientist is known to have died in the development of the stuff. The three laboratories are in the UK, US and Russia. To disagree with that is to question Porton Down scientists opinion and not simply scoring party points off Boris. So they can't say "look it has bits of caviar in it", and say that they can't. The proof is the same as saying only such and such a country produces a particular material, it is circumstantial. However what would be the Motive for another country to learn those skills at great expense to pretend it was Russia? Without a tin-foil hat it doesn't make sense does it?

The Labour party buffoons such as Chris Williamson are supporting the Russians ahead of efforts to defend national security.

The Russian bluster started with the diplomatic equivalent of "No one talks to me like that", the hallmark of bullies everywhere. Their latest gem is that they will only accept the result of the independent OPCW investigation if the laboratories that produce it are the ones who are least likely to have the scientific infrastructure to be able to do so, African, Asian and Latin American countries. They are reduced to this because the OPCW does not inform State Parties how it splits up its investigation and which university laboratories are being used. 

The professional investigation, as you put it, is being done by the Met and the OPCW effort is in parallel. The only body that can decide culpability is a court, as was said in the UN. The words "highly likely" are as strong as the government can use without prejudicing a trial, but the decision of a court is not applicable to the international realm which is determined by the government under the royal prerogative.

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This "stuff is so dangerous", it hasn't killed the three directly affected people and as yet, no other Salisbury resident, despite claims (after a month), that half of Salisbury needs to be cleaned up.  Alas, it seems the household pets have died, probably due to starvation !  :rolleyes:

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Yes it is that dangerous, consider how many could have been affected compared to the number of people that could be kept on life support in intensive care for three to four weeks. 

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Think that's the point, "could have been affected", by this "lethal nerve agent" - but weren't.     If it was the Russian State, then they're going to have to update their stocks PDQ !  :D

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On a battlefield you don't leave it on a door knob exposed to weather and wait for someone to grab hold of it an unknown time later. In the Skripal's case we have no idea how long it was there before they touched it and what the conditions were. The assassin could hardly have predicted the weather's effect in April in England could they? If they did there is money to be made replacing the Met Office. Let us hope that the 50000 hours of CCTV that the Met anti-terrorist branch have to look at will help answer the questions. It is clear that the Skripal's were lucky, but that can't have been the plan, and I for one will be surprised if they do not have some permanent injury.

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Well, if the stuff was there for 50,000 hours, you may have a point, but we'll also ID the perpetrators.  But if this stuff has "weathered" why are they still committing decontamination units to the area a month after the non-lethal event ?   As I keep saying, more holes than a colander.     :rolleyes:

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Well they do have to justify having these de-contamination units on standby all the time. If you've got them, find them something to do!

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And to think,in a couple of years time this episode could be a new blockbuster film  (or netflix) tweaked for the US market & starring Sylvester Stallone &  a young American actress. Sly could take on the might  of the Russian secret service & its army giving them all bloody noses Rambo style.

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But the cat was Persian, and is now suspected to have been spying for Iran !    Perhaps the guinea pigs were N/Korean ?   The plot thickens !    :D

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Probably turn out that the spy and his daughter contracted food poisoning when they ate dodgy pork pies at the local pub!. :rolleyes:

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Interesting TV prog about "black ops";  which covered the Israeli destruction of a Syrian nuclear reactor, that was feared to be part of a plan to build a nuclear bomb.  Having used special forces to recce the site and assess it's stage of development, they completely destroyed it with an air strike.  But it didn't end there: the mastermind behind the Syrian nuclear programme (Gen Suliman),  was then "taken out" by a special forces assassination squad (the Kidon) of sniper frogmen, landed outside his seaside holiday villa.  This merely demonstrates the nature of covert military action by modern Governments, and that State sponsored terrorism and assassination are a common trend, and that truth really is stranger than fiction.        :ph34r:

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Interesting that a Russian scientist says he has seen the data of the toxin used and recognises is as bearing the signs of being made by him in the Russian State labs. His identity effectively verified by the defector in US who blew the whistle on Novichok.  Seems he won't be around much longer as he rubbishes the defence made by Lavrov. Will this convince you or Corbyn Obs?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/novichok-scientist-fears-life-russia-lab-nerve-agent-salisbury-attack-vladimir-uglev-a8326076.html

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The key was the bit about fluorine as if it was a signature. I take your refusal even with this to mean that you don't want to be convinced as I doubt that there will be any stronger evidence. There were clear statements that only three labs were able to produce such purity ( so all western labs will not carry samples of the observed purity) and he suggests, with common sense, that the Americans  and British have to motive. No one else is a suspect for him. He even dismisses the Russian mafia by saying there is no black market. I find your response disappointing but I am sure it will mirror that from Corbyn, which is rather more depressing!

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The Russian who invented this cocktail, lives in the USA, where I'm sure the CIA would have put him to work.  I think the standard of proof needs to be high, especially when a war could depend on it.   We've had an example of the black arts of the intelligence community, with the lie over Saddam's WMDs,  so any scepticism is well founded.      :ph34r:

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Now with the latest incident; perhaps the Police will start to interview every member of staff at Porton Down; unless HMG want to start another bandwagon and blame the Russians.  :ph34r:

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