observer Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 If the Russian convicted of spying for the UK, was convicted in Russia; why didn't they execute him there ? Or were they that short of convicted spies, that they had to use him for a spy swop ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 He must be good to warrant 10 swaps & wouldn't he be a good word score in scrabble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 Notice the term "state sponsored assassination" is being used; is that like when an RAF operative in the UK steers a drone into a house in Syria and blows it up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Well, not quite war yet, but we're not sending representatives to the world cup ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 If we refused to send the England team to the World Cup it would save a lot of embarrassment.................................................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Indeed, more embarrassment than we're already dealing with . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 .. and for once I agree with Corbyn's appeal for calm, as fellow MPs run around Parliament like headless chickens; we need a forensic investigation that produces irrefutable evidence as to the perpetrators, not knee jerk rants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Oh dear. Corbyn just repeated the Russian government formula. I am not sure that it is a simple as collecting some of the stuff and giving it to the Russians. They will only say, no we didn't make it anyway. Utterly pointless. The use of this chemical which will have been detected by a mechanism that we probably don't want to give the Russians, and the Russians relied on that. So they left a calling card and maintained plausible deniability unless you think some other nation wants us to pick a fight with Russia for fun! Russia is conducting what they call hybrid war where they lie, cheat and misbehave by ignoring the usual behavioural norms. Members of this forum will be used to it in part! A cool head just means they do it again what is needed is a devious head and to play them at their own game. Corbyn is too tied to supporting Russia to be allowed near power, he was given the chance to disprove that on Wednesday and failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Well, we've been here before haven't we ? Remember the dodgy dossier, and the WMDs with the rockets that could reach Cyprus ? Let's not forget the mysterious death of Dr Kelly either. However, there's one big difference this time, you can be sure there won't be any boots placed on the ground , and after the cold war style tit for tat expulsions, and the sanctions, the little bulldog might cease barking at the big brown bear ! As for the world cup, it may be safer for our fans not to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I do not see any equivalence with the dodgy dossier. This attack was not a fiction of a taxi driver and was undertaken with a chemical weapon just seven miles from Porton Down research establishment and the scientists there detected the agent responsible! To be honest we have indeed been here before as in Litvenenko and the other 14 unexplained deaths. The first offensive use of a chemical weapon in Europe since WW2 is not just business as usual. Russia's GDP is only half that of the UK, to support their military the population must be suffering terribly and the unrest here is multiplied by at least two there. You can see why Putin needs overseas successes to get re-elected and shut the public up. It is just publicity bullying and he wants us to buy his LPG mot Quatar's so eventually he will shut up. For now Brexit makes us stand out to take pot-shots as we seemed to be losing friends, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 The "equivalence" is, that we were duped into a war by a PM, supported by our intelligence services, and the only expert voicing opposition conveniently died. But still on the point of "equivalence", perhaps you could explain the difference between an RAF operative steering a drone into a house in Syria and the alleged attack by Russia - both are "state sponsored assassination" by any stretch of the imagination. Now I've just listened to Cox the actor on Q/Time, who suggested the plausible scenario of this act being orchestrated by rogue elements within Russia. We seem to assume that Russia is a united totalitarian entity, when it's clearly not, there are clearly competing factions within that State, which are not necessarily under control; which should give us even more cause to be afraid of another cold war, which over-reaction can only exacerbate.. The topic also raises the ease with which Oligarchs have found a haven in London, where they can wash their stolen money, something past UK Govs seem to have been content to allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Putin wants us to buy his LPG and therefore he "annoys" us (for want of words that may be offensive) ? There must be some logic to your argument Confused, but it escapes me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Apparently, the Russian spy chaps daughter only arrived in the UK 26 hours earlier than when both were taken ill . Perhaps this nerve agent has been planted among her belongings or in her luggage prior to travelling by a third party. An aerosol perhaps , a deodorant ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Of course it could be a plot by HMG to get the peoples mind off brexit for a while and stir up sympathy within the EU for us "being picked on by those nasty communists." About as likely as getting hit by a meteor whilst uni-cycling over Niagara falls juggling four elephants singing the aria from la boheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 I didn't realise elephants could sing opera Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 I didn't realise elephants could sing opera Sid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted March 16, 2018 Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 only the females asp, only the females. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2018 Seems that Hollywood rules now apply to international relations; an accusation or allegation now automatically implies guilt, thus cutting out the burden of proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 Putin wanted to be blamed in order to increase the turnout in his sham election. For some reason Britain decided to help, whilst at the same time calling on the OPCW to identify the agent, of which we are told they have no record. The Russians got a request for assistance within 24 hours of the report which Britain had to make after identifying the chemical. Russia was expected to offer immediate help under the convention as far as I can see. Obs, the point you make about Hollywood rules doesn't make sense to me. Does a state wait for an international court to say it has been invaded before responding? What reason does the West have for believing what Russia says after Crimea, Donbass, MH17 and the amazing Estonian soldier kidnap, not to mention submarines in the Stockholm archipelago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 I think Putin would have finished up with a healthy majority even if the entire Russian electorate had stayed cabined up against the cold winds from the east. I can't really see Britain making more than vociferous token gestures when we are tied into Russian gas production & are anxious to cement trade deals post Brexit. I think something akin to gentle poking with Ken Dodd's tickling stick will be the height of UK retaliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Confused52 said: Putin wanted to be blamed in order to increase the turnout in his sham election. For some reason Britain decided to help, whilst at the same time calling on the OPCW to identify the agent, of which we are told they have no record. The Russians got a request for assistance within 24 hours of the report which Britain had to make after identifying the chemical. Russia was expected to offer immediate help under the convention as far as I can see. Obs, the point you make about Hollywood rules doesn't make sense to me. Does a state wait for an international court to say it has been invaded before responding? What reason does the West have for believing what Russia says after Crimea, Donbass, MH17 and the amazing Estonian soldier kidnap, not to mention submarines in the Stockholm archipelago? You seem to believe the West has a lily white record on these type of events; it's the EU and NATO that have moved East since the Warsaw Pact was dismantled. and finished up engineering a coup in Ukraine to dislodge the elected President, and plant NATO troops there; we have spies just like they have spies; in fact everyone is spying on one another - so what. As for modus operandi: we engage in state sponsored assassination each time we take out a Syrian house or vehicle with a drone. As for the alleged toxin, 1. it doesn't appear to have proved fatal (yet), which doesn't say much for Russian NBC warfare, if it was them and 2. the Russian who invented the stuff now lives in the USA, tell me the Yanks don't have any ! If the Russians really wanted him dead, he wouldn't even have been released from a Russian prison in the first place. As for motive: Putin had the election sown up in any event, but I'm sure he didn't want to risk the World Cup, which now seems problematic. Now waiting for Boris the buffoon to blame the recent "beast from the East" on a Russian plot to sell us more gas ! Now I'm not saying Putin didn't order it, just that there is no irrefutable proof that he did. We have allowed known Russian Oligarchs and Mafia gangsters into London for years, giving them asylum whilst gladly washing their ill gotten gains for them, it's no surprise to discover that some a dying prematurely. Big boys games - big boys rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 Something about this whole affair stinks - and not of nerve gas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 Well Obs, the Russian press are indeed saying the events here buoyed up turnout as I suggested. Putin is also saying if it had been a Russian weapon they would have died immediately! Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 Well, I thought I said that, they would indeed have died immediately, and possibly a lot more people too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 Makes for interesting viewing https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=s7Zto_1521439055 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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