Brexit

[Observer II]

Sorry, I don't have your rose coloured glasses, that assumes everyone is even aware of their pension entitlements, let alone joining one, or being in regular employment with a respectable employer rather than some zero hour contract cowboy.  It also rules out any need for food banks or for sleeping rough, as everyone will be receiving adequate salaries to afford such forward planning..  

[Davy51]

Long gone are the days when a person could expect a fully employed working life , & this has been so for 30 years to a degree.

[asperity]

You really do live in a universe of your own invention Obs.

[Observer II]

33 minutes ago, asperity said:

You really do live in a universe of your own invention Obs.

I would say the same of you - which suggests further discussion to be futile.   

[Confused52]

2 hours ago, Observer II said:

Sorry, I don't have your rose coloured glasses, that assumes everyone is even aware of their pension entitlements, let alone joining one, or being in regular employment with a respectable employer rather than some zero hour contract cowboy.  It also rules out any need for food banks or for sleeping rough, as everyone will be receiving adequate salaries to afford such forward planning..  

Firstly Auto-enrolment means that everyone has to opt out not opt-in so your first point has no merit. The regular employment point is valid but that is true for all pensions other than the State Pension. If you get a full state pension with only 35 years work you get almost three quarters of the uplift from the private pension. Of course some will get less but I only suggested a majority would get the full benefit. You quote zero hour (2.5%) and then the homeless and unemployed. The problem is that you first argue that hardly anyone will get the extra pension, I show that the majority will get a benefit from the pension and then you argue that not everyone will get it. Yes just a majority like I said!

[Observer II]

I've got a couple of nephews, neither of whom was offered or knew about "a pension scheme", in the many jobs they've had; despite my constant advise for them to demand one, this went on for the last 10 years, so there's a 10 year gap in contributions for a start. I would suggest that despite legal obligations, like using a cell phone while driving, not all laws are complied with, which is the mistake our MPs make, laws are meaningless without enforcement. As for figures, I'm sure a financial advisor would give you the necessary monthly payments into a "private" scheme in order to provide a liveable wage on retirement. 

[Confused52]

The ones I've seen make less conservative assumptions than I did. Your nephews will have found out about them by now though. Auto-enrolment came in with the New State Pension in essence. The ills of the past cannot be put right by changing the future system. However it is important that folks do save because the New Flat Rate State Pension is not as generous as the Basic State Pension plus Additional Pension other than for the lowest earners. Hence the people who dominate your thinking are actually better off but the majority are worse off without an occupational pension  and they should take the opportunity. PS I don't need a financial advisor thanks, but your nephews sound as if they might.

[asperity]

41 minutes ago, Observer II said:

I've got a couple of nephews, neither of whom was offered or knew about "a pension scheme", in the many jobs they've had; despite my constant advise for them to demand one, this went on for the last 10 years, so there's a 10 year gap in contributions for a start. I would suggest that despite legal obligations, like using a cell phone while driving, not all laws are complied with, which is the mistake our MPs make, laws are meaningless without enforcement. As for figures, I'm sure a financial advisor would give you the necessary monthly payments into a "private" scheme in order to provide a liveable wage on retirement. 

If your nephews ignored your advice about getting a pension organised for themselves (and never mind about being "offered" one) then more fool them! I started paying into a private pension scheme way back in 1986 when the company I was working for stopped paying into the industry pension I was in at the time. I took financial advice as to how much I should be paying every month to achieve a pension income that I hoped would be enough to keep the wolf from the door. It isn't rocket science, but your own little anecdote says it all - your nephews weren't that bothered about getting a pension so didn't do anything, and I presume they still haven't. So when they get to retirement age they will be relying on the tax that I pay on my pension for anything they get from the state.

[Observer II]

Which is precisely the reality I've been prattling on about; the State pension won't keep them, so sounds like a time bomb. Think the term used in Parliament is "pensioner poverty" .

[asperity]

2 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Which is precisely the reality I've been prattling on about; the State pension won't keep them, so sounds like a time bomb.

No kidding Sherlock! Well how about telling your nephews to face reality and start saving to avoid the disaster in their futures? Sounds like a bit of reality needs throwing their way.

[Observer II]

Done it, but there'll be a whole generation out there that haven't or can't.  Guess they'll have to hope for an inheritance !   

[Davy51]

direct.gov.uk is probably the best  website to browse for  any entitlements ,but the very big "but" is that entitlements  & benefits can change overnight in many cases & without public notification. A friend of mine should have been in line for the New State Pension. He retired from a local government job at age 60 due to redundancy to live off his company pension & some ill health benefit he was entitled to ,on the understanding that with 30 years contributions he would have enough for his pension 5 years later. At state pension age he had to settle for the lower pension & not the new rate state pension  ,even though he was age qualified for it, because the number of contributions needed had gone up to 35 years. When i retired i only needed 30 years stamps ,but had paid in for 44 years....what happened to those contributions  of myself & thousands like me ? 

Pensions ,whether state,company or private are a minefield with so much changing almost daily.

[Confused52]

Davy, they are only supposed to change to make you worse off with sufficient notice to let you compensate by saving, but somehow the message doesn't always get through. In the case you quoted I have sympathy with your friend's disappointment. What he should have got, assuming it was after April 2016, was 30/35 of 155.65pw which is 133.41 compared with the previous full basic state pension of 119.35pw. So only a smaller increase but an increase nonetheless. If he has additional pension (SERPS, S2P) the amount up to the difference between the full New State Pension and the Basic State Pension (Both will continue for many years) will be uprated in line with the triple lock and any above that only increases with CPI, which is lower in most years. If he has sufficient money he should investigate buying voluntary contributions for the extra five years as they can still be obtained at earlier rates in same cases.

As for the question where did the money go ........  there is no State Pension Fund it went on paying other peoples state pensions like it does every year. The change to 30 years was made by Gordon Brown to benefit women and the recent change didn't make people worse off but they felt as if they had lost something. Those who had contracted out thought they were getting an increase that turned out to be illusory. The problem is that it is all very complicated and the reality is that the new system will be simpler and hence cheaper to run.

I found that when I looked for advice on how to calculate the amount of Additional Pension (SERPS,S2P) and graduated pension someone was entitled to the advice ended up as ask the Pension Service (and trust them) because there had been so many changes over the years that it was too difficult to explain. Let's hope there will be more stability and less hype in future.

[Evil Sid]

once people life goals were to earn enough to pay the mortgage early. now it's to live long enough to draw a state pension. which for me is currently 66 but may still be subject to change.

[Davy51]

Unfortunately ,Confused, direct.gov is the only accurate bureau of information & unless people actually know they need to keep abreast of changes by checking the site, they will soon end up making wrong decisions. As for public announcements about relevant changes ,they are few & far between...even the stakeholder pension is only advertised on tv when there is a slot to fill. I think my mate might actually be on £133/week but i will mention it to him, that is what i am on. As for SERPS, i contracted out & despite the provider saying i had actually been reinstated in SERPS at some time ,i get all my entitlement from the provider at about £67/month after tax. Couple that with my company pension & i am comfortable.

[asperity]

Sold down the river:

https://www.scribd.com/document/383400078/Chequers-Briefing-Memo-draft-02

[Observer II]

Yep; but a rather inevitable consequence of a Remoaner majority in Parliament.  The EU smelt the treachery in Parliament from the beginning, which has allowed them to stonewall. Even this "sell out" option will not be accepted by Barnier,  who, after all, will be trying to save a 20% drop in the EU budget.  Be interesting what happens when the clock stops ticking and we have no deal ?     

[Davy51]

I hope that the EU laugh this proposal out of their parliament then we can walk away without a deal.

[Observer II]

They'll be laughing alright, keeping their 2nd largest contributor in, in all but name, still paying into their corrupt budget, still having to comply with their rules; but with no political say at all.  At the end of the day however, it all comes back to the fickle nature of the electorate.  The opportunity was there at the last G/Election for the Leavers to vote for pro-Brexit MPs prepared for a hard Brexit, but they didn't.  

[asperity]

To quote Oliver Cromwell:

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place,

which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice.

Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government.

Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess?

Ye have no more religion than my horse. Gold is your God. Which of you have not bartered your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defiled this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices?

Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God's help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do.

I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place.

Go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

In the name of God, go!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[asperity]

[Observer II]

Seems the EU has warned it's member States to prepare for a "no deal" Brexit; strange, as their stonewall position all along has made this inevitable; and arguably intentional.  As I've said all along, the EU cannot be seen to give the UK a reasonable "deal", as this would embolden the rest to exit. So "a deal" was a forelorn hope from the beginning. Now perhaps we can get real; prepare for a no deal scenario and whatever it entails, get businesses and the civil service to adapt to the new reality and move on.  

[Confused52]

Finally May has told the EU that if there is a hard border in Ireland it will the their fault.

And ... I am sick to death of the attitude of Labour ( reputedly preparing a draft Queens Speech for after a General Election) as if the next 13 weeks for the negotiations would be made better by having six weeks for a general election in which by convention the civil service can take no policy decisions. So all of you who voted Leave and then voted for Labour in the General Election have only yourselves to blame.

[Observer II]

Liebour haven't got a clue what to do, having committed to Brexit in their manifesto, with two-thirds of Labour Constituencies being majority Leave voters;  they're walking a tight rope between selling out their own supporters in the North, while pandering to their diverse supporters in London and the South. So, while in their position of opposition, with no responsibilty, they can say what they like. But it's not just Labour MPs selling us out, there's a rump of Remainer Tory MPs , trying to scupper Brexit at every turn. So, it's for all Leave voters to only vote for those candidates who are committed to a "hard" Brexit, irrespective of Party.  I say "hard" Brexit, a description invented by Remoaners, but it's the Brexit we voted for in the referendum, to LEAVE - the single market, the customs union and the ECJ;  we just need MPs with the integrity to do it.   The question is whether the public have the IQ and the bottle to do it. Asp's quote from Oliver Cromwell, has never been more appropriate, and the historical parallels are stark.

[Davy51]

It is interesting that there wasn't all this dithering & hand wringing when we divorced our Commonwealth trading partners to begin our descent into oblivion.