Harvey

[algy]

Stallard, I don't visit this site too often for the simple reason that whatever topic is posted develops into abject vitreol and this one is decending into that category which is certainly not of your making, I have just finishing reading your reporting of the terrible experience that you and the people of Texas are going through and my heart goes out to you, thank God that you and your family survived without suffering too much hardship although the effect on you all must have been terrifying. We over here in the UK moan about our climate but thankfully now nothing of the terrors inflicted by the extreme weather on other parts of our planet.

Thanks Stallard for the excellent report of the event you painted a vivid picture of the event as it unfolded, I hope you can all return to normal living as soon as possible.

Alan.

[Dizzy]

  I miss you posting on here Algy and your sense of humour and great info too. Nice to see you back on though if only for a short while from what you have just said re why you tend not to come on these days   x

Good to hear everything is getting better over your way Stallard x

[Stallard12]

All good ideas Obs, but not possible.   If Warrington and surrounding areas flooded to 30' up the Parish church tower, what could you possibly do make everyone safe for the next one?   It's just physically impossible, not to mention the economics.   It's going on for almost two weeks now and we still can only use a couple of roads.  Have friends who have just managed to get back into their one year old 3000 sq ft home.  It had two and a half feet of water in it and they have started to rip out the entire inside, cabinets, appliances, flooring and Sheetrock down to the studs.  You have to do it yourself cos no contractors can get to you, we can't even get there to help.  Imagine this for over a 100,000 + homes, it's going to take years.   The only thing we can do is prey that something as massive as this never happens again.

[observer]

Raising living space and infrastructure above the level of worst case flooding scenarios, would no doubt cost $billions, but I'm afraid it's the only way to minimise damage in the future, as I doubt this kind of thing is going to go away.   Still, all the best Tex,  remember the Alamo !     

[asperity]

Here's an aerial pic of one of the Texas oil ports (not sure which one). As you can see Texas makes Holland seem mountainous!

 

[observer]

Funny you should mention Holland Asp: a nation that has actually reclaimed land from the sea and is the most advanced on the issue of flood defence.      

[asperity]

Historically Holland hasn't suffered many category 4 hurricane landfalls though......................................................

[observer]

But if you check out their sea wall dams, they probably would !    Believe their main one is so big, it has a M/Way running along it ! 

[asperity]

A lot of land in Holland is actually below sea level as it was reclaimed - hence the large sea walls. Not the same thing as flooding from rainfall.

[observer]

True, but a storm surge adds to the deluge.  

[algy]

11 hours ago, asperity said:

A lot of land in Holland is actually below sea level as it was reclaimed - hence the large sea walls. Not the same thing as flooding from rainfall.

Thank goodness for for your common sense comment Asp!, the flooding situation has nothing comparable with Hollands geographical situation.

[observer]

You can watch the same TV news reports as I do, and you would glean for example; that the latest hurricane heading for Florida, has an increased height (6ft) in sea level due to the storm surge, which is predicted to carry SEA water inland for about 10 miles.   As for "nothing comparable", in geographical area yes, in terms of effect no. If the Thames barrier should ever fail, which could be possible in the event of a storm surge; London would be underwater,   that's why the Dutch are so good at this, they've had lots of practise.   

[algy]

Fair coment obs however a 'storm surge' is a temporary serious event with potentially devastating consequences, however the sea level returns to it's original levels after the storm has passed, Holland reclaimed land from below the tidal sea levels by building dykes and pumping sea water out.

[observer]

Yes, and continues to protect their low lying land with massive dykes, if the dykes fail, they get flooded good style.

[algy]

I'm sure your aware of this fact obs, the Dutch opened all the sea valves and flooded the low lying land to prevent the Geman forces access during WW2.

[asperity]

The Thames Barrier was built with storm surges in mind. In actual fact the majority of barrier closures are to maintain water levels upstream of the barrier rather than to prevent flooding.

[observer]

Yes Asp; but it does have the dual function of releasing excess river water into the sea, but, if the sea is coming in, in the form of a storm surge, it could be overwhelmed.  Now we haven't quite had such a storm in the North Sea yet, but if we do, I'm sure we'll all know about it.     

[asperity]

No Obs, you obviously do not have the foggiest idea about its function. It isn't there to release "excess river water into the sea" because it's open most of the time. It is part of the greater barrier that extends on the banks of the Thames that was built following the storm surge of 1953. This was a combination of a storm, a high spring tide and the geography of land around the southern North Sea. It does have the dual function of holding back the water in the upper Thames during the ebb tide in times of drought.

[observer]

Errm no Asp; not rocket science, just basic hydraulics:   In a storm scenario, rainwater floods the river Thames, taking the fastest gravitational route to the sea, the TB being open to allow this. BUT, in the case of a storm surge, sea water will be travelling up the estuary thus challenging the escape of the rainwater.   The river level increases until it overflows it's banks, finding it's way into the ancient flood plain, now the City of London.  The BBC did a docu-drama on this scenario a couple of years back, and yes, London finished up under water !      

[asperity]

The BBC did a docu-drama! Wow! Well if the BBC says it's true there's no hope for London. Head for the hills Cockneys .

The banks of the Thames have been supplied with high defence walls against such a storm scenario. I would take any scare story from the BBC with a mound of salt.

[observer]