Brexit's losers -

[observer]

Seems the Institute for Economic Affairs (admittedly an alleged right wing think tank); has declared that the PM is right to say "No deal is better than a bad deal", and that reversion to WTO rules on tariffs, would injure the EU as well as the UK.   So perhaps it's time to abandon the negotiations designed to punish the UK, and walk away ?    

[observer]

Well, as we all guessed, Labour is now selling out on the referendum decision, by wanting to stay in the single market, which will mean a continuation of "free movement". No doubt they'll include the customs union and the ECoJ  in their surrender plans; which will mean we won't leave the EU, but remain part of it (like Norway), without any political influence in the EU parliament, but still paying in £billions for the privilege.   What a complete shower of yellow rats.      

[Davy51]

Not to forget that any such moves would leave any future Labour government with an easy route back to full membership with seats on the gravy train & possibly mandatory membership of the Euro as a condition of rejoining.

[asperity]

But on the other hand it would scupper any plans they have for re-nationalisation of anything.

[Evil Sid]

given the scare tactics of the EU if Britain leaves the EU, then to me the main brexit losers seems to be the EU itself.

If leaving was going to be so bad for Britain, then why are the EU trying so hard to keep us in?

The French people are only in the EU when it suits them, certainly the French farmers seem that way. Don't like an EU mandate, blockade the ports.

They are worried that Britain leaving and then having a boom in it's economy will encourage other EU members to leave.

[observer]

Exactly Sid: and it's time our negotiators grew a pair and started laying the law down to these EU shysters.   No deal really is better than a bad deal, and a bad deal is all that the EU want to inflict on us. So just walk away and batten down the hatches for some shared pain.  If the EU realise they are going to feel the pain too, maybe they'll regain some reason.       

[Davy51]

As a major player ,stakeholder & benefactor of this organisation Britain should take the high ground & give these Euro meisters a take it or leave it offer. Like pulling a tooth ,a short sharp remedy is the best option & any hurt will soon begin to fade as the UK makes its way in the big wide world once more.

[Sparky71]

It seems that for one commodity, New Zealand lamb, the UK take 40% of what the EU have agreed to import. So in perspective, out of all the lamb imported into the EU's 28 countries, our small country use 40% of it all. It would be interesting to see the figures for Prosecco, Irish mushrooms, German cars, Polish blueberries etc.

Someone is going to miss us when we leave.

[Togger1]

39 minutes ago, T F and the Wire said:

It seems that for one commodity, New Zealand lamb, the UK take 40% of what the EU have agreed to import. So in perspective, out of all the lamb imported into the EU's 28 countries, our small country use 40% of it all. It would be interesting to see the figures for Prosecco, Irish mushrooms, German cars, Polish blueberries etc.

Someone is going to miss us when we leave.

Italian Prosecco, Irish mushrooms,German cars and Polish blueberries aren't imported into the EU.

[observer]

No, they're imported from the EU into the UK, which makes the point, that the EU will lose a big market if they persist in trying to punish us.  As for goods going into the EU from outside, which presumably pay WTO import tariffs; it doesn't seem to affect wine from Chile, prawns from Madagascar, or indeed cars from S/Korea and Japan, all of which are available in the UK, which is still part of the EU.   

[Davy51]

Let us also not forget that we once had  thriving farming & fishing  industries that can be re-awakened once we leave the EU & in a few years our farmers will become exporters to Europe & countries further afield.

[observer]

Seems the EUrocrats have been "flabbergasted" by the latest British rebuff of their arrogant demands.   Just as in 1940, they are discovering the British bulldog still has teeth, even though most of it's pups may still have milk teeth.  Their attempts to bleed the UK cash cow dry, will hopefully be driven off, and they can get used to the idea, that their second biggest donor is now leaving, without paying a penny in Dane geld, into their corrupt coffers.     

[observer]

Notice Barnier said "the clock is ticking" and his drinking partner Junkers keeps claiming the talks are running out of time. Well hang on a minute, if time is of the essence, why are they only meeting for one week in every month?     

[Bazj]

32 minutes ago, observer said:

Notice Barnier said "the clock is ticking" and his drinking partner Junkers keeps claiming the talks are running out of time. Well hang on a minute, if time is of the essence, why are they only meeting for one week in every month?     

because for the other three weeks of the month, they have to barrack each other and make snide comments

[Togger1]

Its because it takes our crack negotiator David Davis three weeks to come up with a new soundbite.  

[asperity]

Of course it isn't the "chief negotiators" who are doing the work, they are just the frontmen. It's the battalions of civil servants who are doing the legwork 24/7 on both sides. You all knew this of course?

[observer]

Well who'd have thought it, all those civil servants that we've been told about on the news for the last two years.   But they don't make the decisions or agreements or lay down conditions on the process.  Mr Stuka is now criticising David Davis, which is a good indication that Davis is doing a good job for us. It's clear that the EU Mandarins are panicking at the thought of losing 20% of their budget and getting 3 million of their citizens back to claim dole and other benefits. They are still hoping that the 5th column in Parliament (LIB/Labs) will scupper the deal and all the toys can be put back neatly into the box.    

[observer]

.. and now the Tories have caved in and are using bribery as a tool of negotiation;  offering £20billion for the privilege of staying in the single market for two more years and receiving continued migration from the EU.  Clearly, the majority of politicians believe themselves to be above the will of the people.         

[Confused52]

I see it rather differently .... Barnier asked for 100million but no concessions at all. May has offered 20 million and two years free trade. The principle that we will only pay for future benefit is now clearly proposed. I thought it was for two year up the end of the EU budget but after Brexit, so free trade but no freedom of movement and registration of EU nationals who are here. I see no backsliding there.

[observer]

What the Gov don't seem to realise, is that the EU has to be seen to give us a bad deal; in order to stop the other 27 from exiting too. The east Europeans are at odds with Brussels over their migrant inflicting dictatorship, the southern Europeans are struggling with basket case economies; the only thing keeping them together is their belief in handouts from Brussels. Well, if we leave them with a 20% hole in their budgets, it's going to sting;  so they're trying to bluff £billions out of us to soften the blow.         

[Confused52]

That was indeed how it started but the no deal is better than a bad deal narrative was intended to scotch that idea and it does seem to be dawning on the Member States that we mean it. The Member States are asking Barnier to take a more realistic position. You are of course right about the disparate nature of the States but the Germans really aren't happy about being the only paymaster!

[observer]

I agree visa v Germany;   they are clearly hissed off at providing the largess to all these begging bowls; but the way it seems to work is that they lend the money for the rest to buy their cars etc, then still demand interest on the loans (EG Greece).   The problem is Con, we can't "mean it", because we have an EU 5th column in Parliament determined to wreck the will of the people as per the referendum result, and with some in the Tory Party, seek to sabotage any display of our real strengths. EG: the future of EU citizens in the UK, which imo should be a card to play.   I can't see that Poland would welcome the return of over 3 million ex-pats to start consuming their public services and benefits. We've also got this obsession with the single market, which is in reality, no more than a glorified protection racket and any reversion to WTO rules is a two way street - thus tit for tat tariffs - if that's how they want to play it. The reality is, there is no such thing as a "soft" Brexit; anything less than leaving the single market, the customs union and the ECoJ, means we're still in the EU, but with no political input (like Norway).           

[Davy51]

Hopefully, was it Junkers speech earlier this week about the European superstate will jolt a few remoaners into recognising what perils future membership of the conglomerate would have in store for the UK . Perhaps Vince von Cable & his cohorts should consider emigrating to the EU.

[observer]

Whilst all the focus has been on splits in the Tory Party and Cabinet;  Labour is doing it's best to hide their divisions over Brexit.   The Remoaners relentless pressure to sign up to permanent membership of the single market and customs union, which in effect means, continued membership of the EU without voting rights;   is under attack by the Corbynista red guards; who clearly want Labour Party policy to be kept as vague as possible; in order to be all things to all men, including those that voted LEAVE in the referendum.  Seems there is only one Party left for the 52%.           

[Davy51]

It seems to me the PM has become the victim of a campaign to remove her from power & not necessarily from her own party's Remoaners. Sadly,any such action by the men in grey suits will play straight into the hands of the national remoan camp simply by returning the Tories  to a government with an unelected  PM  which was the crux of the  "need"  for the   ill fated  general election. Keeping Theresa in power for the duration of Brexit  negotiations for me is a neccesity as any ensuing election could lead to a power grab by the Islington  Popular Front.