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What's she got to do ?

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asperity    266

Aluminium is used in some ships because of it's lightness, and it is used in passenger ships for the upper accomodation for that reason. In fact fast ferries are all aluminium construction so it can't be that much of  a fire hazard in those circumstances. As far as the cladding is concerned, the fact that the aluminium seems to have been used to cover flammable material  would appear to have made things worse.

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observer    587

Dave, whilst the combustability or otherwise of the cladding is open to question, it's the fact that cladding was used at all, that needs to be considered, as it allowed compartmentalisation to be by-passed.  Now that the s**t has hit the fan, we are also learning that fire resistant doors weren't used in some buildings, again compromising the fire separation within the building.  btw: as the political blame game begins, think we should note that most of these buildings were cladded on Tory Bliar's watch !..  :ph34r:

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Confused52    10

Yep, see Article 6 of the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive (2002/91/EC) ( http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32002L0091&from=EN) and the recast directive - Article 7 of the EU Energy Performance Directive (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32010L0031&from=EN).

Transposition will have been in part through Building Regulations as well as the regulations on Energy Performance Certificates!

 

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observer    587

What I find amazing about all this, is the criticism that the authorities are not giving the true figure of lives lost.  Well if the authorities, and perhaps even the landlord, didn't know the identities of residents due to their illegal presence in the UK, there will not have been on anyone's radar, and thus totally unknown, and thus impossible to identify. It's a measure of the state of the Nation, when "victims" are asked to come forward, with a promise that their immigration status will not be investigated.     :ph34r:

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Davy51    232

There may even be some "ghost tenants" who have been attracting benefits for landlords & not living there.

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Davy51    232

Apparently,aluminium cladding with a plastic core was used on Grenfel Tower to save £300 k so somebody will be held to account.

As for the Falklands ,some of the ships like the Sheffield used an amalgam of aluminium & magnesium especially in the superstructure & coupled with exocet strikes this alloy became an inferno.

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Confused52    10
2 hours ago, Davy51 said:

with exocet strikes this alloy became an inferno.

The summary of the Falkland war lessons from the US Navy disagrees, see page 60 of  (handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA133333). In particular HMS Sheffield had a steel structure but the problem was the design criteria for minimum cost instead of maximum survivability. Aluminium doesn't burn much below steel in temperature but it does deform and soften earlier so it needs physical support. I have no idea what the characteristics of the alloy were of course.

I am afraid that the testing for fire resistance of samples seems to be motivated by something other than finding the truth as they are being done with the core of the Aluminium Composite Material after it has been removed. The building design will have been done with the total composite in place and I would expect that the availability of oxygen must be much lower when covered on both sides by a sheet of Aluminium! That this is the test is confirmed by https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-independent-expert-advisory-panel-30-june-2017 . It says that the test is "in line with the requirement of the Building Regulations guidance", later on they talk of building regulation requirement. The difference between guidance and requirement is far from subtle in this context.

I suspect that the problem is not as simple as we have been told so far.

 

 

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Davy51    232

I must have read a different article then :unsure: about the Falklands.

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asperity    266

Practically the whole body and structure of a modern airliner is aluminium. If aluminium were such a flammable material we wouldn't have thousands of planes in the sky every hour of every day filled with thousands of people, it would be deemed insane.

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Davy51    232

We don't normally expect to be hit by the heat source of a missile  when we go on holiday. I doubt even a steel plane would save us but we are a pretty trusting lot & don't buy a plane ticket with the expectation of getting shot at.

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observer    587

Notice the Grenfell "victims" are being given amnesty from prosecution for some cases where tenants illegally sub-let their properties;  also amnesty from prosecution for entering the UK illegally (where applicable).  So if you want to dodge the law, become a "victim".       :ph34r:

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Davy51    232

Perhaps that's an admission they don't know how many people were actually living there. Dozens of unknowns squeezed into flats or ,on the other hand, non existent  tenants who someone was claiming benefits for.

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fugtifino    76
2 hours ago, observer said:

Notice the Grenfell "victims" are being given amnesty from prosecution for some cases where tenants illegally sub-let their properties;  also amnesty from prosecution for entering the UK illegally (where applicable).  So if you want to dodge the law, become a "victim".       :ph34r:

Why "victims" instead of victims?

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Confused52    10

Because the lack of certainty about who was in the building means that it is possible that some who claim to have been in the building or normally resident there could be failing to tell the truth and there is no means of detecting it. I am sure it was not intended to denote a lack of empathy!

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observer    587

Actually Confused - both !!    :D Watching the antics down in Londonistan, the tail is well and truly wagging the dog. 

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Confused52    10

What are peoples views on the Community, assisted by Labour MP's, wanting to dictate who chairs the Inquiry?

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observer    587

As I said, tail wagging the dog, which appears to be how Government is run at the moment; get rent a mob in London to protest and Gov bends over backwards to accommodate them. Knee jerk governance based on sentiment, and destined to end in tears before bedtime.     :ph34r:

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asperity    266
2 hours ago, Confused52 said:

What are peoples views on the Community, assisted by Labour MP's, wanting to dictate who chairs the Inquiry?

Disgusting, but not surprising the way that mob rule seems to be taking over from democracy.

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observer    587

Clearly not the case, as the politicians prepare to renege on the Brexit. referendum.   But the "mobs" referred to, are the usual suspects in Londonistan; with the free time to knock up a banner and seize a photo opportunity, getting air time out of all proportion to their unrepresentative numbers.    :ph34r:

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