fugtifino Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Take a look at page 20 of this report http://www.hbf.co.uk/?eID=dam_frontend_push&docID=25321&filename=Skyblue_Homebuilders_Report_2016_-_Long_01.pdf Two quotes from the report which suggest that there is a problem and it is not just brickies. Wanting evidence from job adverts is ridiculous. No one site will be identifiable as not going ahead because of shortages but they will happen but be just a statistic, part of the 475,000. The report is for the House Builders Federation, an association whose members include the likes of Barratt, Bellway, Bloor, Bovis and Persimmon. "Most homebuilders see the critical challenge as being about ‘capacity’ rather than ‘capability’. Their key concern for the future is being able to secure a sufficient volume of subcontractors and operatives to build more homes they wish to build; something that becomes more acute and competitive at half year and year end cycles in the industry where wage inflation, poaching and "stealing labour from one site to another" is reported as rife." "Pinch points are being found within specific trades. Groundworkers, plumbers and electricians, bricklayers, carpenters, plasterers, roofers and painters were all mentioned. Tactics to overcome this vary from the increased use of labour agencies to a trend for some larger homebuilders to increase the number of trades they directly employ. The preferred option would be for more subcontractors to take on direct employees, but risk aversion and the fluid nature of needing to bring people in and pull people off developments on a site by site basis is reported as being the main barrier." I suggest that is evidence from the horse's mouth so the discussion can move on. So basically, the House Builders Federation say that house builders aren't the problem. No shit, Sherlock. Wanting evidence from job adverts is ridiculous So, you don't think the volume of vacancies for any particular occupation is a good indicator of demand? If the big builders are so concerned about capacity for forthcoming projects then they should be investing in building some instead of expecting somebody else to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Affordable housing has been included in several developments within the Town, and what it basically means, is that a few houses within the development finish up at half the price of the rest, but are still unaffordable to the average Pleb. That's the real world. As for finding the funding, you guessed it; but the fact you term it communism, speaks volumes as to where your coming from. Presumably, by your standards, the Atlee Gov of 1945 was communist, introducing our much valued NHS and building Council housing, at a time when we've never been more cash strapped as a Nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused52 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Observer, I used the word communist to make you think about the response. Unless I am mistaken the Atlee government had access to 2.7 billion dollars of Marshall Aid which took 61 years to pay back. That is why the idea that we could afford all those houses and subsidies in times of hardship may be more of a delusion than some think. The Atlee government did enjoy spending other peoples money which certainly is socialist but it did not promote confiscation which is what would have made it become communist. The reason there are a few affordable houses in developments in the town is to make sure there is not a large number in the same place because it can lead to areas of deprivation in time. The planning permissions given require affordable houses up to the number according the needs and the council has to work out and justify the number needed. It sounds as if 80% of the market rate is what you are complaining about. Setting it too low effectively destroys value for those who paid for homes to rent and amounts to confiscation. That is why I have a problem it is fundamentally unfair {and no, I don't rent out houses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 The Atlee Gov, in effect borrowed the money and the UK TAX PAYER paid it back over the 60 years; so, as ever, back to taxation. Pleased to hear you don't term wholesale Nationalisation "communist"! Interesting that you can equate home ownership with deprivation, as deprivation usually follows slum landlordism, as owners would sell and move. "Value" is a notional concept, and is hyper-inflated by deliberately withholding supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm not cherry picking which is exactly why I used the gov.uk website. It has to maintain some level of respectability and reliability, it's free for employers to use, if there's any unemployed bricklayers out there claiming jobseekers allowance they have to use that site to search and apply for jobs. And I was very specific with the parameters of the search so that any duplicates would be easily visible. I'm guessing you have not spoken to a lot of buisiness owners who have advertised skilled trade jobs via the gov.uk website Fugs or advertised one yourself? It's a bit of a pain to register....but not too bad I suppose...but gawd once you've posted your job vacancy and been specific about the trade, level of experience etc that you require too from applicants lock yourself in a dark room and turn off your internet and email.....it's an absolute nightmare and goes on for weeks....and don't expect to get people applying who are actually skilled in the trade like you are asking for...or even remotely skilled... or even appearing to know anything about the trade at all as it;s like they have read something different to your advert and just made it up in their heads......as all you will get are non-stop cv's and direct emails and phone calls too if you've been stupid enough to put your number from the many 'hopefuls' who most of the time are just clicking on any job adverts and applying so they can fill in their little jobseekers book to show 'they have tried'. Absolute nightmare.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think you will find Dizzy that unqualified or inexperienced candidates are applying for the jobs you are offering are because they are frightened by government sanction to their benefits of not applying for whatever they are offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I have to wonder if the housing deficit is not so much due to lack of skills, land etc, but to the fact that the "younger generation" (good grief sound like my nan now) of today do not form coherent family units. Where it used to be mum ,dad and 2.3995 kids looking for a house, it now seems to be mum three kids and current significant other. as a result family housing units are being replaced with flatlets for single occupancy. Rented accommodation has shifted from council owned properties to housing associations or private landlords with the appropriate rise in their rental cost and short to medium term leasing. in saying that there are probably more than enough brownfield sites that could be released for housing and developed as such providing the builders do not mind getting a bit less profit form having to clear them prior to building. one plus to brown field sites is that the drainage etc infrastructure would already be in place and would require minimal adjustment to supply any housing built there. now as to the lack of brickies,leccies, wood butchers and the like, that could be down to the fact that the "younger generation" of today may be averse to spending time chucking lumps of brick about in the freezing cold and rain, when they could be in a nice warm office trying to sell double glazing, ppi claims, accident claims or the like. Then again you could always blame it on the grumpy old buggers who live in three bedroom houses on their own just because they have lived in them for the last fifty odd years and scrimped and saved to buy them and "sod anybody who wants them to go in a home and sell their house to pay for it, robbing gets that they are". There are as many reasons for housing shortages as there are people, in fact if it weren't for people there would not be a housing shortage. :huh: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 What I find incredible is the notion that there are legions of skilled building tradesmen sitting at home twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a call from a developer so they can leap into action. It doesn't hold water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I suppose Newton is becoming a classic case of brown field building ,at least at present. The Vulcan works housing development is nearly finished , tho old Viaduct Works/Deacon estate has been turned over to housing & Parkside is supposedly being turned into an employment area of some kind,whether a rail freight depot or warehousing. There is very little industry in the town now but its recently electrified railway tracks are making Newton & Earlestown ideal living space for commuters.Anywhere in the country can be accessed from its 2 stations.A classic dormitory town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm guessing you have not spoken to a lot of buisiness owners who have advertised skilled trade jobs via the gov.uk website Fugs or advertised one yourself? It's a bit of a pain to register....but not too bad I suppose...but gawd once you've posted your job vacancy and been specific about the trade, level of experience etc that you require too from applicants lock yourself in a dark room and turn off your internet and email.....it's an absolute nightmare and goes on for weeks....and don't expect to get people applying who are actually skilled in the trade like you are asking for...or even remotely skilled... or even appearing to know anything about the trade at all as it;s like they have read something different to your advert and just made it up in their heads......as all you will get are non-stop cv's and direct emails and phone calls too if you've been stupid enough to put your number from the many 'hopefuls' who most of the time are just clicking on any job adverts and applying so they can fill in their little jobseekers book to show 'they have tried'. Absolute nightmare.... No, never used it myself and am never likely to. Know a few business owners who have described it as a bit jump-through-hoopy, sounds like there's room for improvement. What I do like about it is that it has to be seen to observe equal opps guidelines, if a "job" is one of those "self employed" positions, it has to say so, it's free for anyone to use and I do find it useful in helping others look for work. I'm not going to start defending job centre rules around jobseekers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 What I find incredible is the notion that there are legions of skilled building tradesmen sitting at home twiddling their thumbs while they wait for a call from a developer so they can leap into action. It doesn't hold water. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I think you will find Dizzy that unqualified or inexperienced candidates are applying for the jobs you are offering are because they are frightened by government sanction to their benefits of not applying for whatever they are offered. Very true Davy and I fully understand that job seekers HAVE to apply for a certain number of jobs per week to keep their benefits regardless of what they actually apply for. I also fully understand that people will apply for any jobs in the hope of getting one....it's awful being out of work and looking, applying, not hearing anything back and feeling like you are just fighting a loosing battle getting no-where and I feel so sorry for anyone who is in that situation. BUT saying that...when a job is advertised that is specific and clear about the proven skill needed you'd think that hopeful candidates would at least read and understand what is being offered and if they are not in any way skilled in that trade to apply for something else instead. I must admit though I do still giggle about many of the applications I read for one particular vacancy someone I know advertised....and yes I do mean many....so if anyone ever wants their car bodywork plastering or wallpapered just ask...all their details and cv's are probably still filed in the "omg I can't believe this is really happening" folder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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