Charges for Green Bin Collection

[Milky]

Not sure if anyone here is aware of this bit as from 17 March Warrington Council will be making a £33 charge for collection of green bins.

 

https://www.warrington.gov.uk/info/201079/bins_recycling_and_waste/2222/charging_for_green_bin_collections_-_faqs

[asperity]

I noticed this the other day when I was checking on bin collections. I see it's £30 if you pay online. Warrington is just the latest in a long line of councils starting to charge for garden waste collections, Wirral did this 3 or 4 years ago.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18580191

[observer]

Thankfully, I haven't been issued with a "green" bin !

[Freeborn John]

I noticed this the other day when I was checking on bin collections. I see it's £30 if you pay online. Warrington is just the latest in a long line of councils starting to charge for garden waste collections, Wirral did this 3 or 4 years ago.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18580191

I notice that it's an extra 10% if you don't pay 'online', presumably to cover the cost of that bored council clerk having to deal with all that expensive talking to the public and stuff.

These people really do specialise in peeing up your back and telling you it's raining.

[asperity]

Thankfully, I haven't been issued with a "green" bin !

Well you probably don't need one in your basement flat Obs

[Dizzy]

To me it seems very wrong that they are going to charge more for those who can't pay online.  A lot of the elderly do not use online payment services for various reasons and many don't even have access to to the internet.  Many possibly don't drive have cars either so it's not like they can just put all their green waste in the car and take it to the tip for free like suggested. 

Coupled with that there is no discount for the elderly some of who only get a state pension so £33 to them will be a lot even though it only equates to £3.67 (ish) a month (based on £33 charge divided by collections  made from March to November inclusive ie £33 divided by 9 (months of collections))  

As collections are only fortnightly that is £1.83 (ish) per collection though which I guess in reality isn't too bad if you look at it that way and you can fill a bin to the top in 2 weeks.

Elderly aside (sorry old folks ) .....would I pay £3.67 a month more for a green bin to be emptied ON TOP of the £100+plus that I already pay WBC in Council Tax every month......NO CHANCE !! You get enough from me as it is.

Final moan...they say that residents who do not want to take up the 'charged for' service can and KEEP their green bins (as they wont be collected) and can use them for storage or perhaps water butts. 
What if people don't want to keep and use them for something else and have them cluttering up their gardens or yards?  Will the council collect them then if they are asked too or should people just take them to the local tip or perhaps just dump them on the streets or the Town Hall's lawn   

I put a wink after the 'Town Hall lawn ' comment because from what I heard today it seems a lot of people are thinking of doing just that out of protest EEK...could be a good photo opportunity though and an interesting shot when they are lined up     
 

[Evil Sid]

An interesting thought.

 

Most of the houses wellfield street have green bins as they have gardens.

 

They back onto the field area of sankey valley.

 

Most have a tree near them that sheds leaves into the garden which presumably , when swept up, goes into the green bin for disposal.

 

My point is that these trees are on council land but the leaves land on privately owned land.

 

So in effect the council are charging these people to clear up the councils green waste.

 

Can these people ask for a discount for this?

[Bazj]

I'm sure there will be someone who will take unwanted green bins off your hands. Allotment owners would love them I'm guessing

[Davy51]

Perhaps unwanted bins could be turned into enclosed segways, like a saloon version of the open plan ones that zoom around Spanish holiday resorts.

 

Given that recycling is expected these days you should really expect a rebate for the more you recycle.

[Milky]

Charging for the bin collection will mean that a lot of people will not buy the service making the service more expensive (per bin emptied) and so I expect a further increase in years to come. Also is the composting of the green waste is it not sold on, reduced quantity means less revenue

 

I did not ask for the green bin yet the council is banning garden waste from its black bins. This move will increase traffic, tipping, fires and the waste taken to the tip, does the council not need to pay to get that disposed of?

 

Now onto my hobby horse, a council that has enough money to demolish building then build parks (I am talking about the Crown Chamber Buildings) and commission brand new offices should have enough money to provide bin collections.

[Paul Kennedy]

Charging for the bin collection will mean that a lot of people will not buy the service making the service more expensive (per bin emptied) and so I expect a further increase in years to come. Also is the composting of the green waste is it not sold on, reduced quantity means less revenue

 

I did not ask for the green bin yet the council is banning garden waste from its black bins. This move will increase traffic, tipping, fires and the waste taken to the tip, does the council not need to pay to get that disposed of?

 

Now onto my hobby horse, a council that has enough money to demolish building then build parks (I am talking about the Crown Chamber Buildings) and commission brand new offices should have enough money to provide bin collections.

Different category of money Milky.........demolishing things and then rebuilding is capital expenditure.......of which WBC can borrow plenty at historically low interest rates, whilst emptying bins is revenue expenditure (day to day spending) which comes from income such as Council Tax, charges, fees, government grants etc. In the last financial year WBC had Gross Revenue Expenditure of about £470 million...and Council Tax income was about £80 million....local authorities cannot borrow money to pay for day to day expenditure....and currently are limited by how much they can increase council tax by. WBC had borrowings of about £260 million and investments of about £50 million.

[Davy51]

Maybe they are hoping for a third party to step in Milky & offer a cheaper service.

[Milky]

Different category of money Milky.........demolishing things and then rebuilding is capital expenditure.......of which WBC can borrow plenty at historically low interest rates, whilst emptying bins is revenue expenditure (day to day spending) which comes from income such as Council Tax, charges, fees, government grants etc. In the last financial year WBC had Gross Revenue Expenditure of about £470 million...and Council Tax income was about £80 million....local authorities cannot borrow money to pay for day to day expenditure....and currently are limited by how much they can increase council tax by. WBC had borrowings of about £260 million and investments of about £50 million.

 

Where does the money come from to repay the loans and the low-interest when it is due?

[Dizzy]

Perhaps unwanted bins could be turned into enclosed segways, like a saloon version of the open plan ones that zoom around Spanish holiday resorts.

:lol:  Now there's a idea   

 

Given that recycling is expected these days you should really expect a rebate for the more you recycle.

Having googled it seems like some councils actually offer incentives to residents who recycle (usually blue waste though so slightly off topic but I though it was interesting

and a good idea).

 

People join the 'incentives' scheme and they get points for using their recycling bins which can then be used towards a variety of discounts on things

or even things like a free game of Pitch and Putt or other activities for their family members.

 

Anyway back to green bins, sorry I went off on a tangent then as usual. 

 

I wonder how much the council get for all out green garden waste when they sell it on to companies who turn it onto compost or use for other means. 

 

I wonder how much they get for all out blue bin waste too.

 

Does anyone know ?  Not that it makes any difference, I just wondered that's all.

[Freeborn John]

In line with an apparent policy of watching what other local authorities get away with and then copying them, I'm waiting for WBC to go to emptying our black bins every three weeks, it's being looked at, don't worry.

[Davy51]

Dizzy, coming under Merseyside ,we have a points system for recycling but i don't know how it is worked out. Most people don't want gimmicks though ,they just want their bins emptied.

[Bill]

£30 a year seems reasonable when you think how much time and effort it takes just loading up the car and queuing at the tip. 

It's not that bad at the moment but all those who choose not to pay will make the queue situation worse but it's their choice.

 

 

Bill

[Paul Kennedy]

Where does the money come from to repay the loans and the low-interest when it is due?

The theory is that most capital projects are self financing, so for example the Times Square project (£110 million) the rent earned by letting out properties and the savings made by housing all council staff in the new office building...and disposing of the unused offices... etc generates enough income to both repay the loan and its interest...and if not the development itself can be sold off...with the assumption that it will have increased in value....as did Golden Square. Now if the theory doesn't go to plan, interest will be paid out of revenue expenditure...possibly to the detriment of other services, and the capital of the loan will have to be financed by taking out an additional loan or extending the existing loan. Other capital projects are based on the business case that the long term cost is less than the costs incurred if nothing is done....a very simple analogy is that people upgrade their heating boiler to the latest model that costs less to run and repair, so over time the cost of the new version is less than the cost of continuing to run the old model. In the case of loans to registered social landlords, it is a simple numbers game whereby the social landlords pay to WBC more than WBC borrowed and the "profit" becomes income that WBC can then use to pay for services...WBC's secures the loan against property owned by the social landlord.  

[Paul Kennedy]

£30 a year seems reasonable when you think how much time and effort it takes just loading up the car and queuing at the tip. 

It's not that bad at the moment but all those who choose not to pay will make the queue situation worse but it's their choice.

 

 

Bill

I will be paying the £30, as in my circumstances it seems the best option...not least because often when I go to the tip....I end up with a nail or screw in my tyres.  Charging has been on the cards for sometime as are other potential changes...it is just easier politically to introduce changes when there are no elections until 2020.

[Davy51]

Ultimately though ,the council are just discharging a duty that should be & has  historically been covered by rates/council tax ,namely collecting household refuse.

[Bill]

I suppose it depends on how you look at it Davy. We know the council hasn't got any dosh due to cutbacks and politically they don't want to be seen to be putting up the rates so at least this way, the people like me who don't really mind and think its a fair price, help to keep the rates lower for the majority.

 

 

Bill

[Bazj]

£30 a year seems reasonable when you think how much time and effort it takes just loading up the car and queuing at the tip. 

It's not that bad at the moment but all those who choose not to pay will make the queue situation worse but it's their choice.

 

 

Bill

 

the thin end of the wedge though methinks... first it's £30 for the green waste, next it'll be £30 for the blue waste, then bins emptied every 3 weeks, then a charge to put the street lights on, while all the while the council increase the council tax by 1.9999999% every year and still cut services while buying up gyms and sports shops and building and kitting out fancy new office blocks for themselves....

[observer]

Perhaps it will be outsourced to a volunteer tree-hugger group? The big society works out cheaper all round !

[grey_man]

the thin end of the wedge though methinks... first it's £30 for the green waste, next it'll be £30 for the blue waste, then bins emptied every 3 weeks, then a charge to put the street lights on, while all the while the council increase the council tax by 1.9999999% every year and still cut services while buying up gyms and sports shops and building and kitting out fancy new office blocks for themselves....

 

A report from the Public Accounts Committee last week highlighted how councils are now investing more and more money in commercial ventures even though they don't have the skills needed to do it. We'd all better hope that there are no 'corrections' coming in the next 25 years or WBC may be screwed, along with others. This has the potential to make the lending to banks scandal look like small beer.

[Davy51]

I think a future problem could be that once a service is accepted by the public as validly being pay-to-use it is easier for the provider to up the prices when the time suits.

 

Take funerals & cremations & look at how charges have soared for a service that was once paid for by the rates & that is after all  just the ultimate recycling service.