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TRUMP elected 45th President of USA

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asperity    271

Odd that neither Saudi, Lebanon, UAE or Egypt are on Trump's BAD MUSLIMS! list, seeing as those are the countries where the 9/11 terrorists came from.

 

Unlike this buffoon, Obama knew his way around the constitution, which is probably why he never did anything remotely like this.

 

Like him or loath him...

 

So, go on then, where are you on that question?

The 7 countries that this Executive Order are the ones chosen by the Obama regime over 2 years ago for special measures on visa applications because of them being failed states. It has nothing to do with banning Muslims. Do a bit of research Fugs before embarrasing yourself.

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observer    552

As I said Asp, the Obama regime identified these countries as risk areas; but the PC lefty liberals don't want facts to stand in the way of their fiction, when they go off on one.   8)     Heard a young scouserette on the news, protesting; she was finding it difficult to string a sentence together, let alone an argument - such is the future.

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asperity    271

The problem is that people today are guided in their thinking by so-called comedians on TV rather than engaging their brains and finding out the facts for themselves.

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Davy51    236

Perhaps there is now a golden opportunity for Trump  & Putin to step in & stabilise Syria & other rogue states. Both countries have the ear of these governments between them & get the UN in to start rebuilding & end the need for mass migration .There is no reason why a stable Syria can't become prosperous for reasons other than oil.

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observer    552

Dave; there's never been a "need" for mass migration, other than a "want" for "a better life"; the vast majority of global migrants are economic opportunists, who are prepared to risk their lives for greener pastures that they've seen on a TV or computer screen.  Neither have many been destitute, being able to afford the large sums of passage demanded by opportunistic traffickers.  If we take the minority of genuine refugees, fleeing wars;  the opportunity has been available to the international community via the UN, to properly resource refugee camps in adjacent countries and to compensate host Governments, such as Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon; until situations improve and a return is possible. So why a need for them to travel half way round the globe to seek sanctuary ?  The same people, with the "values" they wished to impose on Iraq and Afghanistan through war, are now the same naïve idiots who are protesting to accept the resulting displacement caused by said wars.  In other words, digging one hole after another, because they're too myopic to see beyond next week and the consequences of their naivity. While the West proceeded with notions of supporting the emergence of liberal democracy and funded rebel factions against established regimes, this has served only to extend and exacerbate conflict and suffering.  Fortunately, in Syria a more old fashioned and pragmatic approach by the Russians is bringing matters to a conclusion, and presenting the opportunity to stabilise events.

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observer    552

Clearly NOT  " a Muslim Ban", otherwise it would include all Muslim majority nations and not just the 7 risk areas identified by the Obama regime. The whole point of this tempory measure, is to allow time for the introduction of controls on entry into one's country.                                      As for support, US polls show an almost 60% support for Trump's action.  So while these young, naïve liberal idiots, throwing their toys out of the pram and "protest" in the freezing cold; the silent majority can watch it all on TV, and do their protesting at the ballot box. 

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fugtifino    69

Of course IT'S A MUSLIM BAN. It's targeted at residents of majority muslim countries.

 

Majority muslim countries that are not included on the list are those that may be a source of oil or those that Trump's companies do business with.

 

After the 90 day period, there's a good chance that any restrictions may be more stringent.

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asperity    271

Fugtifino, you are ignoring the fact that the 7 countries affected by the order are the ones that the previous administration under Obama had identified as being a risk to US security due to their status as failed states. Was Obama doing the same thing for the same reasons and, if so, where were the mass protests 2 years ago? As for this:

 

Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, during a Saturday interview on Fox News, seemed to indicate that the executive order President Trump signed on Friday was, by design, the best legal way to fulfill Trump’s desire to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. without illegally banning Muslims.

 

Well that lays it on the line in no uncertain terms NOT.

 

Muslims as members of a religious sect have NOT been banned from entering the US. Muslims already in the US are not under threat of deportation, unless they are there illegally.

 

I don't know if you've ever been through US immigration but I can assure you they're pretty stringent wherever you come from. All this furore is down to the sore losers who will do whatever it takes, tell whatever lies required, to try to bring down the Trump presidency. Sounds a bit like the remoaners doesn't it?

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observer    552

So  Fugs: "majority Muslim countries NOT included on the list"  means that not ALL Muslims are subject to the ban; therefore it's not a ban   on ALL Muslims.   It's fairly simple to work out, that just like one's home, you don't leave the doors to your country open to all and sundry, without vetting them.  Just plain common sense, which apparently seems to elude the younger generation.

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Davy51    236

Perhaps there is now a golden opportunity for Trump  & Putin to step in & stabilise Syria & other rogue states. Both countries have the ear of these governments between them & get the UN in to start rebuilding & end the need for mass migration .There is no reason why a stable Syria can't become prosperous for reasons other than oil.

 

Well there is certainly plenty of rebuilding to be done over there Obs, caused by the civil war, & a stable & prosperous region would reduce the perceived need of migration by the locals for monetary gain.I am sure most of the people would prefer to remain in familiar surroundings than come to the west anyway if the opportunities were put their way. A middle east trading bloc perhaps where the currency is not oil.

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observer    552

No doubt Dave, but it would be interesting to see how many actually return to their "HOMELAND" to rebuild it. No doubt Assad will be used as the excuse for not going back, irrespective of any peace and reconciliation initiatives made. The problem imo is; that different countries around the world have evolved in different historical periods at different rates, and it is an extreme arrogance for liberal western democracies to try to artificially accelerate such societies to their perceived standards of civilization. The primary interest for all us, is to pursue a stable and tolerant world; in which we accept that dictatorships exist and freedoms are less, but where folk can live on 3 meals a day, without fears of factional upheaval. And whilst by all means, we may which to educate those we consider backward, with our standards and values, this should be imo, by example rather than imposition. After all, if and when, our so called social progress begins to turn sour, they may be able to teach us a thing or two.

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asperity    271

Where have the outraged protests been against the ban on Israeli citizens and people with Israeli visitor stamps in their passports for the last 50 years or so by several Muslim majority countries? The stench of hippocracy is overwhelming.

 

http://drrichswier.com/2017/01/30/sixteen-countries-ban-anyone-with-a-passport-with-an-israeli-stamp-or-visa-from-entering/

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Davy51    236

Following all the outrage, it is amazing that so many people can object to Mr Trump wanting to protect the USA & for wanting to make the most of his own economy & get US human resources back to work before offering places to yet more immigrants. A similar policy has been the lynch pin of the Brexit vote & will hopefully return the UK to a policy of no admission without a work permit.

Both countries have been in the vanguard of offering refuge to the oppressed & unwanted for hundreds of years but there comes a time when enough has to be enough.

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fugtifino    69

…you are ignoring the fact that the 7 countries affected by the order are the ones that the previous administration under Obama had identified as being a risk to US security…

 

And you’re ignoring the differences between what Obama did with the list and what Trump’s doing, precis here:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm_term=.69790f5e08ac

 

and here:

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sorry-mr-president-the-obama-administration-did-nothing-similar-to-your-immigration-ban/

 

Basically, the visa waiver included a list of countries, with travel from those countries being visa-free. The Obama administration (it's congress who make laws like these) amended this so that anyone who had travelled to these countries wouldn’t get a visa waiver – they’d have to apply for a visa.

 

Trump banned entry to anyone from those countries, that’s the difference.

 

Further, it’s a bit disingenuous of Trump (and his supporters) to cry “it was them democrats what did it”; they’re under no obligation to do what they have.

 

Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, during a Saturday interview on Fox News, seemed to indicate that the executive order President Trump signed on Friday was, by design, the best legal way to fulfill Trump’s desire to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. without illegally banning Muslims

 

Well, yes, “seemed to indicate”, looks like there’s a lot to be discussed before that one’s established:

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/trumps-immigration-ban-is-illegal.html

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/316714-federal-judge-blocks-trump-immigration-ban-nationwide

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/01/29/four-federal-judges-issue-orders-blocking-parts-of-trumps-executive-order-on-immigration/?utm_term=.ed9aa3df1996

 

Trump has made no secret of the fact that he wants to ban muslims from entry to America:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/07/donald-trump-ban-all-muslims-entering-us-san-bernardino-shooting

 

That he’s trying to dress it up as something else doesn’t change what his intended outcomes are.

 

Where have the outraged protests been against the ban on Israeli citizens

 

Well, it’s not really something I’d expect to see discussed on a thread about the new POTUS.

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observer    552

It's a fairly simple issue, to anyone but some hysterical juveniles, with heads full of PC, doll-house sentiment:  any State has a duty to protect it's citizens from dangers, both internal and external. That's why institutions such as the Military, the Police and border security have evolved; in order fullfill this primary function, by vetting would be entrants and issuing qualified permission to enter in the form of a visa. Now, as promised and supported by their electorate, the US have decided to tighten up their border security by improved vetting procedures. Even the EU originally recognised this issue, when they decided to expand the EU into a super-national State, by scrapping border controls with the introduction of Shengen, BUT they also had the Dublin Agreement designed for peripheral countries of the EU to act as gate keepers by vetting illegal entrants. This they have singularly failed to do; in fact worse; the demented old lady running Germany, then invited over a million of these un-vetted migrants to simply start walking through Europe, totally against the existing policy of the EU.  With no knowledge of who these entrants were, and the now proven fact that ISIS terrorists used these routes to embed themselves in the flow. So to put it mildly, we now have a chaotic situation of illegal entry into Europe, with a similar situation in the US; with the natural demands of indigenous populations for their Governments to get a grip and perform their primary function.

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asperity    271

Well Fugtifino, well done on dredging up opinion pieces from the usual suspects (NY Times, Washington Post and The Grauniad - all well known Trump cheerleaders - NOT :lol: ). The US is under no obligation to allow anybody entrance to the country if they don't want to, much less from unstable, failed states. As it is the ban is for 90 days until the DHS has installed better vetting procedures. This is all being inflated by those people who are upset by the fact that their chosen candidate was defeated in the election instead of acting like rational adults.

 

You dismiss the ban on Israelis as beeing irrelevant because it doesn't suit your argument, however it is a prime example of the stinking hippocracy so prevelant amongst the hard of thinking.

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fugtifino    69

And you post stuff from somethiing called "Legal Insurrection" as an exemplar of truth?

 

The Isreali issue isn't germane to this thread and I really can't see why anyone has brought it into the discussion here. If you want to start another thread about it, knock yourslef out.

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asperity    271

So the USA has put a temporary halt to visitors/immigrants/refugees from a select few countries it considers might pose a risk to it's security. Meanwhile a host of countries have had in place a permanent ban on citizens of, and visitors to, Israel. But you don't think the comparison is "germane to this thread". Wow, talk about cherry picking.

 

You stay safe in your little bubble Fugs and ignore the realities of the world outside.

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I remember a feller once who came out with a word I'd never heard of, I thort I could read and rite but it stumped me, I had to stop him and ask him what it meant.

Peripatetic. It means mobile, not fixed at one location, why couldn't he have said that?

Anyway, back to Trump...

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fugtifino    69

But you don't think the comparison is "germane to this thread".

 

No, I don't, it's another strawman argument.

 

If Trump genuinely wanted to reduce the number of nutters with guns killing US citizens, then he'd be better off doing something about the right to bear arms:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3R_iWRWAAApvcZ.jpg

 

Instead of doing things like this:

 

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/02/02/trump-just-removed-white-supremacist-groups-terror-watch-program/

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asperity    271

You counter what you say is a straw man argument with two of your own. Keep digging Fugs, you might strike oil yet :lol: :lol: :lol:

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