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Gary

Brexit - we are all doomed!!!

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As I understand it, the UK is unique in Europe, if not the world, in having such a large percentage of home owners. In most other countries homes are rented. If this were to be the case here, i.e. if the number of houses available to rent were to be vastly increased and encouraged, then market forces would inevitably force rents downward. Just a thought. Discuss and call me an idiot as usual :lol:

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Precisely Asp, said it many times, and your not an idiot !.  Council Housing is an anathema to Tories, who seem to believe that they are a breeding ground for Labour supporters, alas this is probably no longer the case, as political tribalism is on the wane, and folk appear to be realising the power of their varying their vote, assuming they vote. "Cheap" rented housing would decrease demand for housing generally, with the knock on effect of reducing prices throughout. Unfortunately, we have such things as housing land banks being left undeveloped in speculation of rising prices, and with apparently no powers available to Councils to force developers to actually build and build "affordable" housing. A major impact could be attained by the pre-fab idea, which was used after WW2, to replace the slums destroyed by the Luftwaffe. At the end of the day however, we need governance for ALL the people and not just the few, which the PM appeared to want too.  This requires the constant redistribution of wealth, closing the wealth gap, and increasing spending on our infrastructure and services. The reality of modern technology is that it requires less labour to produce things, leaving many, especially the unskilled without employment. It would therefore seem common sense, to suggest that the increasing need for employees in the care industries be funded, rather than paying folk to be unemployed.

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Council housing used to be a great idea for the working classes, a good , solid & affordable roof over your head until Maggie decided it was a great way of recruiting blue collar Tories to the fold.,by selling the houses off which left a gap in the affordable housing market. I regard myself as a floating voter & there can be nothing wrong with a system of rented housing that allows people to be able to  afford to pay their rent & household bills & still have money to spend in the wider economy to provide wealth & opportunity to others. It is the wider economy that stimulates growth & provides taxes for governments to spend & the ability to have this feel good factor is good for the people & the economy.

 

Regarding part time jobs supported by benefits....this is another part of society that has been hijacked by governments with the need to make unemployment figures look better over the years, splitting full time jobs into 2 or 3 & topping up wages by benefits that are not called "unemployment benefit" ,but another socially acceptable name. That is why i believe we  need to get our people on full time hours & ,where  possible, off benefits before others are invited to take jobs.

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My grandad and Grandma were the first tenants in their council house in Bewsey. That was in about 1926. My mum and dad bought the house before Thatcher was ever on the scene and I still own the house to this day, nearly 90 years on. The problem didn't arise from the selling of council houses, because in many cases, tenants stayed in their council houses for generations rather than the idea of moving after a few years so the idea that these houses usually became "available" a lot quicker or more regularly than other types of housing is just wrong. In my mums street alone, even to this day there are people who have lived there for over 50 or 60 years. Some have bought, some are still with the council (Or GGHT)

 

The biggest issue is the failure to continue to build council or social housing, both before and after Thatcher, in sufficient quantities because once someone is in social housing they tend to stay there for many many years. 

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Seems the Chancellor of the Exchequer has identified a £100billion black hole in our finances by 2020, and of course, like everything else, this is being blamed on "brexit". Again, what keeps being ignored, is the fact that until article 50 is triggered and at least 2 years of negotiations are completed, we are still members of the EU, so being a member of the EU isn't saving us from this financial challenge. We're also being told, that an end to free movement and controls on immigration will cost jobs; which begs the question as to how we survived before we joined the EU.

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The news yesterday stated that unemployment was down & that many jobs had actually gone to immigrants ,but are we to believe that all these new jobs are full time or are they benefit supported part time jobs ? Then we hear that shoppers are revelling in feel good factor ,but could be leading the country to a credit crisis further down the line.

 

If we hadn't experienced any of these anomalies already during our time in the EU you could be forgiven for thinking that all the news agencies were delighting in painting Brexit black.

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Listening to BBC's doom laden  Brexit inferences to the Autumn Statement you would ,in most previous years within my living memory,  wonder just what caused the doom laden reports of previous statements & budgets prepared by governments of all persuasions in the past.

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The Remoaners are determined to block or delay Brexit, with a continued carping on about the "single market". The people voted to exit the EU primarily to end unfettered immigration, and that means no free movement = no single market. Some economists are now predicting a banking crisis (like 2008) in the EU, with Greece, Portugal and Spain at the leading edge; so the EU has more to worry about than we do.

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My advice Davy is to avoid all BBC news/current affairs broadcasts. They seem to be determined to portray Britain and it's native population as being beyond redemption and not worthy of any praise. They big up the EU and any foreign culture as being superior to anything British.

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I am already wearing elasticated shoes, my tablets are locked away & given to me on request ,my car has been clamped to stop me driving & bus & train timetables locked away.

 

The BBC really are a bastion of negative doom & gloom In what should be our finest hour.

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The Remoaners are determined to block or delay Brexit, with a continued carping on about the "single market". The people voted to exit the EU primarily to end unfettered immigration, and that means no free movement = no single market. Some economists are now predicting a banking crisis (like 2008) in the EU, with Greece, Portugal and Spain at the leading edge; so the EU has more to worry about than we do.

Italian banks are, I understand, the most in crisis...as is its economy. Its Government could fall if next month's Referendum there doesn't go the way their Government want...and given the mood of voters in Western democracies....it might well fall.....mind you that is nothing new in Italy....they regularly used to have a change of Government annually....indeed at its worst a couple of Governments a year.  

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The Remoaners are determined to block or delay Brexit, with a continued carping on about the "single market". The people voted to exit the EU primarily to end unfettered immigration, and that means no free movement = no single market. Some economists are now predicting a banking crisis (like 2008) in the EU, with Greece, Portugal and Spain at the leading edge; so the EU has more to worry about than we do.

.....they also voted to leave the EU because they were totally and utterly fed up with the "establishment"....and many probably took the view that leaving the EU wouldn't make their lives any worse than they are at the moment....and with a Referendum their vote would count and maybe for once they could be heard...and what shocks me is that the "establishment didn't realise that....and most of them still don't.

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True Paul, most haven't learned a thing; but I've noticed an interesting vocabulary change with some MPs, especially Labour; who are now using phrases like concern for "the white working class" and we need to work for "the left behind"; and the latest feigned concern for the "Just About Managing".  Having spent the last two decades in their world of PC trivia and identity politics, perhaps they may begin to address fundamentals for a change - but don't hold your breath !

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I certainly wasn't holding my breath waiting for adequate attention to 'fundamentals' - but I actually caught my breath at the lack of contrition in the Autumn budget. Do they seriously think they can carry on regardless in the present climate of public discontent?

 

£23 billion for 'infrastructure & innovation' which will ensure the Fat Cats can carry on creaming off the countries wealth and SBA for anyone else!

 

Once I'd got over the shock of their stupidity in flying in the face of such strong public feeling I thought this may actually be the trigger point to 'make the people sing!'

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The problem is Sha, the Tories won't deal with social injustice and the Lib-Labs won't deal with immigration, so catch 22.  So any other Party that addresses these public concerns should get a free run.

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Let us just deal with the injustice of the EU first, then the electorate can sort out our independent, sovereign country.

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"Deal" is the operative word Dave, implying "getting a grip", being decisive etc: but I'm afraid our Parliament is full of self seeking egos and Party dogmas, that believe themselves to be intellectually above the masses; and populism is viewed as a sin. They are going round in circles over the issue of Article 50, when they could simply repeal the EU accession bill.

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I don't think they are quite so much 'going round in circles' as purposely stalling. There are two opposing camps, those who have 'interests' in staying in Europe and those whose 'interests' are better served by deals with China & India.

Neither are at all interested in solving problems regarding British social/financial injustice or the impact of the current level of immigration.

If, we ever do leave the EU, to get the open market package we will still have to have free movement of European people.

In the meantime, Theresa May is brokering deals with India who are insisting on easier access to visas for their people to come and live here.

So rather than lowering immigration levels, it looks like we will end up getting vastly increasing numbers!

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The most important action the government & "leave" groups can do is get Brexit & Article 50 set in motion as soon as possible so the Government & Queen's Opposition can get back to the day to day running of the country without any distractions.

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Think your right Sha:  the current immigration controls are a complete shambles, and not likely to improve if trade deals are linked to easier entry into the UK. The whole point of the referendum decision was to bring back control of who can enter and who has to leave the UK, with tight visa controls, backed up by a UKBF worthy of the name, plus appropriate legislation to back them up, are essential. It's not rocket science to suggest that all visas are applied for in a British embassy in the Country of the applicant, which could involve full security screening and medicals; and would be restricted to those essential skills required in the UK, and be for a fixed period of time.  Anyone without a visa would be thus an illegal alien and subject to immediate deportation. As for the "trade agreements", we've had an example of "free trade" when China started dumping their excess steel on the world, at the expense of home grown industry. Such is the anarchy of so-called globalisation.

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The most important action the government & "leave" groups can do is get Brexit & Article 50 set in motion as soon as possible so the Government & Queen's Opposition can get back to the day to day running of the country without any distractions.

 

Davy51, what do you actually expect to happen when "article 50 is set in motion......... and the Government get back to the day to day running of the country" ?

 

What I imagine will happen is that the cesspit of self-serving politicians that are presently termed 'the Government' will have a freer hand than they presently do to fleece the general public whilst making the mega rich wealthier.  The Autumn budget, is a prime example of how they mean to carry on even in the face of public unrest!

 

Britain needs trade with Europe and they are not going to get it without freedom of movement, so if we come out of Europe we gain nothing - but we lose our right to participate in or veto decisions. You seem to blame Europe for all our past ills but what you don't or won't recognise is that none of the decisions on policy made by Europe could have been made if our Government had exercised their right to veto - which they didn't!

 

If you think Britain could do without exporting to Europe - then it follows that it's possible Europe could find other markets than Britain.

Do you think importing/exporting goods from farther afield will work out cheaper than what we pay to be in Europe? I don't.

 

Much of the money paid into Europe comes back to Britain by way of funding to the Regions, so the only difference if we Brexit will be that Europe will no longer have any say in how it's distributed. At present Europe dictates that it goes to industries and social programmes deemed most in need and also, funding is reliant on proving  'Community Benefit' with insistence on Community consultations, openness, honesty and transparency etc. 

When our Government get full reign of the finances, how much do you think will come north of Watford Gap? I think a lot of our present industries will collapse, and present job opportunities will disappear to be replaced by low skilled, very low paid, no contract hours jobs in sweat shops built by Asian investors, run by Asian management and filled by an influx of Asian workers - and 'worker's rights' will have disappeared. 

Unemployment + increased food prices + racial tensions = social unrest on a grand scale!  

 

 

Even though I could see a lot wrong with Europe until we had a Government we could trust I didn't think it was the right time to leave.  

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Think your right Sha:  the current immigration controls are a complete shambles, and not likely to improve if trade deals are linked to easier entry into the UK. The whole point of the referendum decision was to bring back control of who can enter and who has to leave the UK, with tight visa controls, backed up by a UKBF worthy of the name, plus appropriate legislation to back them up, are essential. It's not rocket science to suggest that all visas are applied for in a British embassy in the Country of the applicant, which could involve full security screening and medicals; and would be restricted to those essential skills required in the UK, and be for a fixed period of time.  Anyone without a visa would be thus an illegal alien and subject to immediate deportation. As for the "trade agreements", we've had an example of "free trade" when China started dumping their excess steel on the world, at the expense of home grown industry. Such is the anarchy of so-called globalisation.

 

I think the global discontent with 'the establishment' may eventually lead to such major social changes as have not been seen since the French Revolution and all it's knock on effects around the world.  Whether we will all still be alive to see a period of calm established is anyone's guess.  

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I never wanted the UK to join the Common Market in the first place. We had the Commonwealth which had provided  us with our necessities for a hundred years & which had supported us in 2 world wars which had comprised of some of the countries we now wanted to climb into bed with. We turned our back on the Commonwealth as trading partners to cosy up to some dodgy nations.As it happened ,the following referendum said we should stay in Europe.

 

My main objection with the EU is that successive governments have given away degrees of sovereignty of the UK with various treaties in the name of closer political ties ...that can't be right.I would be much happier if we went back to the days of the Common Market with looser ties with Europe & were also allowed to forge trade links worldwide. The Common Market did us no favours though with its farming & fishing dictats that meant many of our most efficient food producers had to cease trading.

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