So - who should be the next Tory Leader ?

[P J]

aside from the fact that I don't want to watch a 15 minute video.... can you summarise??

 

nah,  not a patch on the hours long guff I have seen posted on here

[observer]

What tantrum?  Immigration has to do with the discussion as it was the main reason for a majority in the referendum and control of immigration is a concern of over 70% of the population; whether it be from the EU or elsewhere.   So you can put the dummy back in and relax.  Sorry Baz, missed your post for a sec: a very valid point; our come one, come all advocates; don't appear to care about poaching much needed skills from the third world; maybe on the basis, that if these countries suffer, they'll all head for the UK !

[P J]

Is that the entirety of your argument?  In what way am I meant to be spitting out a dummy?  by pointing out the disparity and problems created by our disproportionately aged population?  Given the vile campaign wagered by the recently departed I am not surprised folk got frightened by the rhetoric.  p.s.  you keep changing the percentages.  

[observer]

You spat out the dummy when you lost the referendum; and it doesn't appear that you've put it back in yet !

[P J]

You spat out the dummy when you lost the referendum; and it doesn't appear that you've put it back in yet !

 

Grow up.

[observer]

Eventually you will !     

[P J]

you forgot the ner ner nee ner ner

[observer]

Needed a infant to remind me !!!      

[Bazj]

So is it right that we are poaching, encouraging, allowing all these young Eastern Europeans to leave their homelands devoid of young, fit, working age, tax paying members of their own impoverished societies in order to ensure that there are enough fruit pickers in Lincolnshire, countries like Bulgaria have seen almost 3 million people leave for the likes of Germany and the UK, nurses being one group that leaves their homeland short of qualified professionals and a lack of young people to even train up to replace them.

 

It was always going to happen I suppose, that young people from poorer countries in the EU would flock to the richer ones with the potentials to earn 4 or 5 times what they could at home.... but what about their elderly and sick? or is the "we're alright Jack" mentality alive and well in the west?

[Davy51]

I think pensioners have earned their money PJ. I finished work early, over 4 years ago ,& because i paid into a company pension i couldn't claim a penny. I have recently got my old age pension & i now have to pay tax on my company pension. I have worked 45 years & i know people,who thanks to the dodgy benefit system, are on more retirement income than me despite never working a day in their lives.

[P J]

I think pensioners have earned their money PJ. I finished work early, over 4 years ago ,& because i paid into a company pension i couldn't claim a penny. I have recently got my old age pension & i now have to pay tax on my company pension. I have worked 45 years & i know people,who thanks to the dodgy benefit system, are on more retirement income than me despite never working a day in their lives.

 

you sort of answer your own question there Davy. With public sector workers such as police and firemen working for 30 odd years but then retiring at 55 on what is a very generous pension, they could be claiming that for much longer than they were paying in.

[P J]

So is it right that we are poaching, encouraging, allowing all these young Eastern Europeans to leave their homelands devoid of young, fit, working age, tax paying members of their own impoverished societies in order to ensure that there are enough fruit pickers in Lincolnshire, countries like Bulgaria have seen almost 3 million people leave for the likes of Germany and the UK, nurses being one group that leaves their homeland short of qualified professionals and a lack of young people to even train up to replace them.

 

It was always going to happen I suppose, that young people from poorer countries in the EU would flock to the richer ones with the potentials to earn 4 or 5 times what they could at home.... but what about their elderly and sick? or is the "we're alright Jack" mentality alive and well in the west?

 

Isn''t one of the major gripes that them immigrants are coming over 'ere taking our jobs and sending home the money?  Would you ban British people from emigrating based on the same theory?

[P J]

3/4 of Health Trusts in Britain have unfilled vacancies and are having to recruit doctors and nurses from abroad just to keep up with the pressures put on it by our excessively aged population.  These health care professionals are paid the same rate as indigenous staff on the same band and are paying into the country both financially and by helping our sick.  If we cut off this supply of immigrants we are cutting off our noses to spite our face.

[Paul Kennedy]

Just wondering if this topic should now be closed as the Conservative Leadership has been resolved, and a new topic set up about some of the items mentioned in the most recent posts.

[Bazj]

Isn''t one of the major gripes that them immigrants are coming over 'ere taking our jobs and sending home the money?  Would you ban British people from emigrating based on the same theory?

 

But "sending money home" to families is entirely different to them paying taxes in their own countries. The money sent home will go straight into the pockets of the people left behind and not into the countries coffers to pay for their essential services which then means the country has to take more from the EU which in turn leads to the situation like we had a few years ago when the EU demanded an extra £1.4 billion from the UK. So logically, could that extra money could be discarded from the tax income figures that migrants pay in taxes to the UK?

[Bazj]

3/4 of Health Trusts in Britain have unfilled vacancies and are having to recruit doctors and nurses from abroad just to keep up with the pressures put on it by our excessively aged population.  These health care professionals are paid the same rate as indigenous staff on the same band and are paying into the country both financially and by helping our sick.  If we cut off this supply of immigrants we are cutting off our noses to spite our face.

the increased demand is not just from the aged population. Millions of extra people from abroad must have some impact on the hospitals, infrastructure and school places needed too

[Davy51]

you sort of answer your own question there Davy. With public sector workers such as police and firemen working for 30 odd years but then retiring at 55 on what is a very generous pension, they could be claiming that for much longer than they were paying in.

 

I think what we have to look at is that when a person reaches retirement age he or she will receive state retirement payments whether or not they have contributed to the NI fund ..A person who has never worked ,providing they have signed on ,will be no worse off than someone who has worked all their life & some of the worldly wise who have managed to get other benefits will be even better off. As the population ages we need to get younger people off the benefits they are receiving & into full time work to provide the funds for the future pensioners of the UK which is how the welfare state used to be. The only other option is an age limit on pensioners, but which government would openly introduce that & which pensioners would take one for the country by jumping under a bus ?

[P J]

the increased demand is not just from the aged population. Millions of extra people from abroad must have some impact on the hospitals, infrastructure and school places needed too

 

A lack of school places is a failure of Government not the fault of immigration as many times I have posted figures on here showing the nett contribution made by EU migrants.  

[P J]

But "sending money home" to families is entirely different to them paying taxes in their own countries. The money sent home will go straight into the pockets of the people left behind and not into the countries coffers to pay for their essential services which then means the country has to take more from the EU which in turn leads to the situation like we had a few years ago when the EU demanded an extra £1.4 billion from the UK. So logically, could that extra money could be discarded from the tax income figures that migrants pay in taxes to the UK?

Baz, in Poland there are many very well educated unemployed people, not paying taxes.  Over 20% of Polish graduates are unemployed.  This hits their coffers in unemployment benefits etc.  Now if we have need of these qualified and motivated workers I see no issue to us or Poland in them coming here and working for a living.  

[Davy51]

Do you remember a couple of years ago,on the BBC local news, a school in Liverpool that had only been open a few years that was being knocked down. I think an idea would be to mothball schools that are surplus to requirements at least for a few months & if push comes to shove think about using the buildings as living accommodation if necessary. Any upturn in school requirement would then have buildings to move into.

[P J]

Do you remember a couple of years ago,on the BBC local news, a school in Liverpool that had only been open a few years that was being knocked down. I think an idea would be to mothball schools that are surplus to requirements at least for a few months & if push comes to shove think about using the buildings as living accommodation if necessary. Any upturn in school requirement would then have buildings to move into.

 

As I said, a failure of Government.

[Bazj]

[P J]

[Davy51]

Listening to a BBc interview in the wee small hours ,Mrs May will have to run the daily gauntlet of the fashion police as well as running the country.

[P J]

Pathetic isn't it, the leader of the opposition has to do the same