EU debate - young v old

[Milky]

A debate I came across on another forum

 

I personally feel we should leave the EU for economic reasons, we belong to a union that is failing economically, our exports are reducing to the EU, population increasing, while we are paying an ever increasing amount to belong to this club.

Weather immigration brings in extra tax is not really an issue as hundreds of billions are needed now to provide care and infrastructure, such as roads, housing, education. So the billion or two in extra taxes these that come here pay is really a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed.

Listening to the TV and radio debates and the few people I seem to know who are under 25 all seem to care about is freedom to travel. This is an immature stance as freedom to travel will remain in the same way you can travel to most of the rest of the world. Working in some EU states might become restricted a little but only to these that do not have the skills

Maybe the voting age should be lifted not lowered?

[observer]

There's an old saying "you can't put an old head on young shoulders"; these kids are making their bed and will have to lie in it, so won't have the usual excuse of blaming a preceding generation. btw. The tax issue is a total myth, as most migrants don't earn enough to be paying it, they'll be net receivers in tax credits and other benefits, plus their demand on public services.

[Davy51]

It is amazing that since the minimum wages was introduced that we seem to have had an increase in immigrants working for a pittance.

[observer]

Not just immigrants Dave:  many of these youngsters, who are supposedly voting to REMAIN, assuming they can be bothered voting at all; are in non-Unionised work places, where even the law doesn't shine it's light.

[P J]

There's an old saying "you can't put an old head on young shoulders"; these kids are making their bed and will have to lie in it, so won't have the usual excuse of blaming a preceding generation. btw. The tax issue is a total myth, as most migrants don't earn enough to be paying it, they'll be net receivers in tax credits and other benefits, plus their demand on public services.

 

you are at it again, lying about migrant earnings and tax payments.

[observer]

Says the guy who's finally admitted on another topic, there are migrants that don't pay taxes.  

[P J]

I said EU migrants, as a whole, contribute hugely to the coffers, your xenophobia doesn't allow this to register with you it seems. How much profit do British company's generate from the migrant workforce?

[Davy51]

So is it coming down to accounting terms where a migrant is more profitable than an indigenous worker ?  Working for lower wages, probably not paying tax or NI, no protection under law (civil,employment or H&S) ,no access to trade unions & in many cases exploited by employers. I can see why these people are preferred by employers.

[observer]

"As a whole", so your prepared to allow the world into the UK on the basis that some of them will be net contributors, as if that qualifies the rest. The fundamental issue is simply numbers, we're the most densely populated Country in Europe and if we keep letting more onto the boat, it will sink. Where there is no control, there can be no planning; and where there is no planning or preparation there will social chaos.     

[P J]

"As a whole", so your prepared to allow the world into the UK on the basis that some of them will be net contributors, as if that qualifies the rest. The fundamental issue is simply numbers, we're the most densely populated Country in Europe and if we keep letting more onto the boat, it will sink. Where there is no control, there can be no planning; and where there is no planning or preparation there will social chaos.     

 

It's not a boat so a poor analogy.  So you admit that EU migrants are contributing to the nations wealth, at last the lightbulb goes on.

[observer]

Errm nope; "some"; you are claiming "all";  so let the "some" in on a temporary visa basis and keep the rest out - simple points system, not too hard even for you. 

[P J]

glad you have accepted that immigration from the EU benefits the coffers,  must mean your being against it is based on something else then, probably your xenophobia.

[observer]

    Desperation setting in now with you.  If only net contributors are allowed in (which is a non-starter in the EU), we'd get the money without being loaded with the net takers - not rocket science. 

[P J]

Just count the money and be grateful.

[observer]

Tell that to those in the housing, NHS or school place queue !  

[P J]

There you go again with you scaremongering.  Just accept that the taxes help the country, the EU migrants contribute to the success and profits of British business and prop up the NHS.  The lack of affordable housing is a Government failure going back decades, not the fault of hard working EU immigrants who are, by the way, statistically far less likely to use the NHS than our own folk.  There is a huge problem in the UK with pensions costing more than the workforce can generate. Even you must see this?

[observer]

Housing is simply an issue of supply and demand. Yes, supply has been low, with developers holding back and operating land banks and Governments (all Parties) selling off Council housing, so we can't re-house our indigenous youngsters, let alone 330,000 migrants every year. So demand is a major factor and if that continues to increase, so will the housing crisis. 

[P J]

Housing is simply an issue of supply and demand. Yes, supply has been low, with developers holding back and operating land banks and Governments (all Parties) selling off Council housing, so we can't re-house our indigenous youngsters, let alone 330,000 migrants every year. So demand is a major factor and if that continues to increase, so will the housing crisis. 

 

Many people have benefitted from the rise in house prices, in fact our whole economy is underpinned by it.

[observer]

People seeking a home can't be benefiting from increasing house prices, cos they simply can't afford to buy.

[P J]

People seeking a home can't be benefiting from increasing house prices, cos they simply can't afford to buy.

 

and people who own property?  Do they benefit?

[observer]

Oh, so now your drawing up the draw bridge - a good Tory attitude. I guess your not worried then about all those poor migrants looking for a home. 

[Dizzy]

The 'doomed if we leave' scaremongering is definitely getting onto the younger brains.  Over the past few week it's come up in converstation quite a few times when I have been chatting to some of the younger ones I know and so far ALL have said they now think we should stay in.  Various reasons given such as worries about minimum wages going and them being on even less, jobs and employment being affected, and of course travel for their cheap holidays blah blah.

Seems a lot of the youngies are also seeing and being bombarded with 'suggested links' on their facebook pages etc too gearing them towards staying and the effects leaving will have on them if we do.  Considering nobody really knows what effect leaving will actually have on any of us it's a bit wrong to brainwash the youngsters like this IMO. 

[observer]

A sign of the level of debate and the level of understanding Diz:   if your only concern is whether you'll have higher roaming charges and the mistaken idea that you'll need a special visa to travel to Spain;  these will be the serious issues on which you'll base your vote - SAD.   

[Davy51]

I don't know if i have this right but i keep seeing adverts that say the Irish can vote in the Referendum....apart from the six counties isn't Eire a foreign country ?

[Evil Sid]

after reading post on here concerning the in out debate it looks as though truth is a foreign country to both sides.