Hillsborough Inquest, fans unlawfully killed

[P J]

Not by a stampede , have you evidence to the contrary? If not go read up before making stupid and offensive accusations

[Milky]

Not by a stampede , have you evidence to the contrary? If not go read up before making stupid and offensive accusations

So how did people get crushed.

[P J]

Not by stampede, if you have evidence to the contrary post it, if not go read the findings, educate yourself and come back when you have.  In the meantime stop spouting about something you clearly haven't the slightest idea about. 

[Milky]

So what caused the deaths PJ?

[P J]

So what caused the deaths PJ?

 

go and learn and stop being a moron, you have been given the place to go.  I will give you a clue, don't search for stampede as there was none. Why did you claim there was a stampede (twice)?  Are you just a bit sick and enjoy upsetting survivors and family members of the victims with your made up bile,  from the brave position of anonymity, behind a keyboard on a forum?

[P J]

as you are clearly struggling with words here the BBC have done a pictorial version, a sort of Hillsborough for idiots.  Pay particular attention to slide 5

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7992845.stm

[Milky]

Firstly PJ I am entitled to my opinion and have no intention of upsetting anyone. End of the day I do not know what happened

[P J]

Then stop trying to make up vicious lies about fans stampeding and causing deaths.  If you are entitled to your opinion I am more than entitled to point out that it is utter lies.

[P J]

Question 7: behaviour of the supporters

 

Was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? 

Jury’s answer: No.

 

If your answer to the question above is “no”, then was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? 

Jury’s answer: No.

[P J]

Firstly PJ I am entitled to my opinion

 

"The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

 

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!"

[Bazj]

At the end of the day, 96 people went to a football match and never went home. As a fact on its own, that should never have happened.

 

I have never been a football fan in the way most people seem to be, it has just never interested me and I have only ever been to one football match and that was at Anfield when Liverpool played Stoke - and Kevin Keegan was still playing....

 

Obviously from the outcome of the inquests, the ground was not fit for purpose (as it would appear were at lot of grounds back then - just look at Bradford and what happened there), but the over-riding and most disgusting part of this whole event was the cover up instigated by the Police. Yes, they were being led by a commander on the day who was very inexperienced, but rather than admit they were wrong and culpable, they have spent the last 27 years telling their version of events and passing that version of events onto the media, the public in general and successive governments rather than admitting they were wrong.

 

Most people would like to think that the Police were always truthful, that they would uphold the law without fear or favour, but sadly in recent years those ideals have been sadly lacking and more and more stories are now emerging of corruption and coercion when it comes to the police.They are no longer held in high esteem as they were back in the 60's and now appear to be at a point where as a law abiding citizen and the victim of a major crime myself years ago, I and many many of my friends would never trust a copper, regardless of rank. They look after their own and stick together, even when the truth is so blatantly there to see.

 

From what I have read of that day since the inquests started, the Police were disorganised and utterly inept in their response to the unfolding tragedy that they along with the design of the stadium, had created. Even when the lifeless bodies of men and kids were being dragged out onto the pitch, they formed a human wall to keep rival fans away instead of helping those in distress. They called for dogs instead of ambulances and then systematically sought to cover up their crimes for decades afterwards. 

 

Those responsible should be brought to book. Dukinfield should be prosecuted as should many of the coppers on duty who gave false evidence or altered their accounts to suit the official line. The public should expect nothing less because if the boot were on the other foot and 27 years later it was found that a member of the public had been guilty of causing the deaths of 96 people, you can be sure they would be prosecuted and jailed if that was the finding.

 

And one final word, one of the things I did learn from the recent coverage of the inquests was that there was in fact a 97th victim, a lad who had sold his ticket to his best mate who was then killed at Hillsborough.... he couldn't bear to live with the outcome of what had happened and sadly took his own life.... many of the family members who fought for years for justice never got to see it realised... the real justice side should start now and those responsible brought to account. Let's hope that finally happens

[Milky]

Question 7: behaviour of the supporters

 

Was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? 

Jury’s answer: No.

 

If your answer to the question above is “no”, then was there any behaviour on the part of football supporters which which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? 

Jury’s answer: No.

 

I know what the jury said but in order for the people to have been crushed there had to be a force applied, this had to have happened (in my view)  in two ways there had to either been a rush or something was pushing from the back. If as the jury says it did not come from the crowd then where did the force to crush people come from?

[P J]

Go and read the reports and stop making ill informed guesses. Are you dropping your stampede claims then?

[Milky]

Go and read the reports and stop making ill informed guesses. Are you dropping your stampede claims then?

 

A stampede is a rush PJ, the report says it did not come from the supporters, where did it come from then?

[P J]

There was none

[P J]

Why are you so desperate to blame the fans, in fact why are you so desperate to blame the only people involved in this disaster who have been proven to be blameless? What are your motives?

[Milky]

There was none

 

then i do not understand why or how did 96 people die

[Milky]

Why are you so desperate to blame the fans, in fact why are you so desperate to blame the only people involved in this disaster who have been proven to be blameless? What are your motives?

i am not i am just questioning a report that says the crowd had no bearing on the disaster when there was a crowd crush.

 

in my view the major fault was with the stadium, the policing was crap also, i related my experience at the stadium here already.

[P J]

yes you are, the fans have been proved blameless yet you come on here and accuse them of stampeding into pens 3 and 4. Why don't you just go and read up on how it happened, it would save you a lot of time and you would look a lot less vile

[fugtifino]

then i do not understand why or how did 96 people die

 

Is that because you don’t really want to?

 

Looks simple to me; too many people were forced into too smaller space in too short a time. This ended up being a bit like a pressure cooker, there’s no single point or source of pressure, it’s all around you and pushing in all directions.

 

Despite that, thought this was interesting:

 

the force of only 6 or 7 people pushing in the same direction can generate up to 1000 lbs of force – enough to bend steel railings and topple brick walls.

 

So, it wouldn’t really take many people to have a devastating effect, half a dozen stewards could have done that for all you know.

 

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/security/how-to-survive-a-stampede/

 

I agree with everything Baz has said. Almost three decades of shameful collusion between the police, the media and government officials, with the wholesale slander of football fans in general and Liverpool fans in particular.

 

Now, Milky, what would you say was the cause of all that?

 

 

[AdrianR]

There was no stampede, rush or sudden build up. I recall it vividly. As per most terraces, pressure built and people tried to squeeze in but here there was a combination of effects.

 

The central tunnel had a slope down towards the pens. This slope exceeded recommendations for such sports grounds. It was dark and narrow and once in there you couldn't turn round as others come in behind you. You had nowhere to go. As the police wrongly thought, the fans "would find their own level". It was a cumulative effect. A few enter and cant get in, some more enter and cant get in and gravity kicks in with the weight of a mass of people. There was some give and some jostling I have no doubt but I've since read that crowds act like fluids and don't need much of a force to cause changes in flow. Also in pen 3 a barrier failed and collapsed. That would have been holding some back and when it failed caused yet a further crush and a toppling effect both at the front and the back.

 

I was told when I tried to exit from the pens that I couldn't go through the tunnel because there were bodies in there. 

 

So lets stop this now. No crush, no rush, no stampede. No fault of the fans.

[Milky]

then i do not understand why or how did 96 people die

 

Is that because you don’t really want to?

 

Looks simple to me; too many people were forced into too smaller space in too short a time. This ended up being a bit like a pressure cooker, there’s no single point or source of pressure, it’s all around you and pushing in all directions.

 

Despite that, thought this was interesting:

 

the force of only 6 or 7 people pushing in the same direction can generate up to 1000 lbs of force – enough to bend steel railings and topple brick walls.

 

So, it wouldn’t really take many people to have a devastating effect, half a dozen stewards could have done that for all you know.

 

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/security/how-to-survive-a-stampede/

 

I agree with everything Baz has said. Almost three decades of shameful collusion between the police, the media and government officials, with the wholesale slander of football fans in general and Liverpool fans in particular.

 

Now, Milky, what would you say was the cause of all that?

 

 

 

 

 

I have already said A badly designed ground, the law that forced fans into cages

Crap policing, compiled by mistakes on the day

crowd rush made worse by the start of the game, point out no one was forcing the crowd in.

[P J]

I have already said A badly designed ground, the law that forced fans into cages

Crap policing, compiled by mistakes on the day

crowd rush made worse by the start of the game, point out no one was forcing the crowd in.

FFS

[fugtifino]

Thanks, but I think you misunderstand me, I meant this specifically:

 

Almost three decades of shameful collusion between the police, the media and government officials, with the wholesale slander of football fans in general and Liverpool fans in particular.

 

What do you think caused this?

[Gary]

Let's all take a leaf out of Everton FC's book and various other clubs and show our respect to the 96 who went to a football match and never came home.

The families have got justice at long last.