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Davy, unfortunately for the traditional heavy industries you're talking about, the developing world overtook us over 50 years ago and the UK couldn't compete. The countries of the Far East found they could build better and cheaper ships than the traditional Western shipbuilders. UK coal had become more expensive than other sources, and in any case the Greens have forced us to shut down coal's biggest customer the power stations. Even if the mass closures of pits hadn't happened, they would be dead on their feet now. The same Green activists convinced Government that nuclear was too dangerous and so the UK sold all its nuclear expertise abroad. Steel production is world-wide and is a competetive market with fewer customers. The Port Talbot blast furnaces are past their sell by date now as new steel production has been overtaken by re-cycling which is cheaper and less polluting.You can't keep living in the past and blaming long dead politicians for the way things are.

 

 

Exactly Asperity, & i said pretty much what you have. Progress has killed the country's heavy industry & cheap wages from abroad have lured business overseas even as far back as the cotton & woollen industries which were all labour intensive. Although it is very attractive to sacrifice jobs for profits ,all it is doing in the long run is driving our nation towards bankruptcy. Because the labour intensive jobs are no longer with us much of the UK workforce is employed on part time zero hours contracts supported by unsustainable government benefit packages. Unfortunately, there aren't enough jobs in white collar sectors to provide future jobs to address the shortfall even if everyone was suited to a job in finance & banking. Every government that comes into power just tinkers enough with the economy to cover its term in office & ,as much as can't say i liked the bloke, at least Gordon Brown admitted the well had gone dry.

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Can I just step into this discussion... it is topical.   Just wanted to let you know that there is now a dedicated Facebook page especially for Warrington residents that covers the Leave arguments i

An argument for staying in:   https://youtu.be/37iHSwA1SwE   VOTE LEAVE :cool:

Well a Mr Patel who has a letting agency in the town thinks the EU is doing a great job, according to a piece in the Guardian recently. According to him, the demand for houses from migrants is keeping

Interesting prog on BBC2 last night, covering the history of the EU (Them or Us):  what was particularly interesting was the fact that we didn't have a referendum prior to joining; but a cross-party decision in Parliament to join, which authorised Ted Heath to sign up.  The Parliamentary decision was contrived by Tory wets and right wing Labour MPs, and was described at the time by Tony Benn; as "a coup de'tat by the political establishment" - so not a lot has changed then.  Still, what it does tell us, is that we don't need a referendum to exit the EU, but merely sufficient anti-EU MPs in Parliament to vote for Brexit - something to bear in mind for the post referendum phase.   :wink:

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I haven't read any of the previous postings but really anoyed at the scary stuff the Government shoved through my door this morning. I consider it junk mail but on this occasion I have an address I can send back to.

 

 

Joanna George,

FREEPOST RSB-XRZT-ZTXE

The Consevative Party Foundation,

30 Millbank,

London SW1 4DP

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Hey don't send it Freepost! Just send it to Conservative Party HQ unstamped and then Dismal Dave has to pay the postage :lol:

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Now, that really would make our economy plummet .Hundreds of thousands of letters at double the postage . It makes you wonder though if these other Tory scandals have been made known so people will take their eyes off the Euro ball.

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See Jeremy has fired off Labour's guns in favour of "remain"; his key reasons being :-  1)  The EU has improved worker's rights in the UK - perhaps he should be telling that to the kids on zero hours contracts, a system that basically equates to slavery or the workers who are having premium payments taken away to compensate employers for giving the minimum living wage. Sorry Jezz, the conditions of workers, especially youngsters, has never been as exploitative for over a generation, and the EU hasn't stopped it.   2) By remaining in the EU we can influence it's policies - sorry Jezz, but on the Council of Ministers the net donors are outvoted by the net receivers, so we'll never have any influence to change what suits them; including their right to allow their unemployed and aspirational folk to head for the UK (3.3 million and rising, with a new increase from the Southern States to add to the Eastern), to undermine wages and conditions in our workplace, consume benefits and increase demands on our public services. And that's just the EU immigrants; we now have a queue building up from sub-Saharan Africa, all looking for "a better life", for which, along with the rest, Jeremy and Co have no answers, in fact the opposite, as their inclination would be to let them all into the EU to become EU citizens and then have the "right" to enter the UK.

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Now, that really would make our economy plummet .Hundreds of thousands of letters at double the postage . It makes you wonder though if these other Tory scandals have been made known so people will take their eyes off the Euro ball.

If you send it to the Conservative HQ it's the Conservative Party that has to pay the postage!

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But all these would be immigrants are fully qualified surgeons and engineers, we won't be able to survive without them. Didn't you get the memo?

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Doesn't appear that Jeremy has much faith in Labour ever winning a UK election; if he's relying on the EU to protect employment rights. The reality however is that despite the EU, workers rights have deteriorated under the EU, only to be compromised ever further by mass migration.   :wink:   Meanwhile, while the Plebs are dumped on every which way; the top Bosses are reeling in obscene pay rises, bonuses and golden handshakes; and the EU hasn't done a thing to create fairness in the workplace.

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You know, it is amazing really that despite Europe's best efforts to get a single currency, the Cap & trying to run peoples lives with countless "directives" ,that they haven't implemented a pan European health policy to ensure that all member states have an equal & successful health service. Perhaps it would have meant too much money going out of the coffers of the Euro mandarins & back to doing some good for the population.

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The Scarecrow is well aware that outside of his cosy socialist fantasy bubble, he couldn't organise a Sunday school outing, never mind run the UK.

Far easier to leave it to Brussels then.

In fact, after a Brexit, there would be plenty of other substandard politicians who would have to man up or ship out, perhaps that's what they're all afraid of.

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Well a Mr Patel who has a letting agency in the town thinks the EU is doing a great job, according to a piece in the Guardian recently. According to him, the demand for houses from migrants is keeping the value of houses high, great news for homeowners. Not so good if you are looking to buy though.

 

The EU is great for people like him, and employers who are looking for cheap labour, with virtually no job security or rights.

 

VOTE LEAVE

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Proving what exactly?  That no one, not even so-called independent studies, can predict the future. All these global institutions failed to predict or prevent the 2008 financial crash, and arguably contributed to it, so we can take their opinion with a pinch of salt.   Perhaps if the debate concentrated on what has happened, and what is happening, we'd get sense rather than speculation and fear. :roll:                    And now we've got the Yanks, remember, the 13 colonies that wanted independence from Britain, no taxation without representation etc; came over late in two world wars to dictate the peace, and who wouldn't dream of surrendering one iota of their sovereignty; telling us, what we should do. As I've said, a rich and powerfull establishment won't let notions of sovereignty and democracy interfere with their monopoly, so all the buttons are being pressed. 

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The opinion i formed from Obama's soundbite on the news was that America would prefer us in the EU as a bastion of stability & to maintain security in Europe probably by use of our intelligence service which seems streets ahead of its Euro counterparts.

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If the US thinks the EU is such a good idea, then perhaps they should join as well?

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There's absolutely no correlation between the EU and the Security issue; NATO provides collective military security and Interpol and other links provide policing & intelligence security. In fact, based on the migrant exodus, the EU has compromised our security by allowing over a million illegal migrants to walk all the way to Germany, total incompetence. In terms of military scenarios, the EU didn't prevent the annexation of the Crimea or E/Ukraine; and has arguably been the promoter of instability, by it's expansionist aspirations, in that area. btw. the UK is no longer the odd man out in wanting to end the undemocratic and incompetent bureaucracy in Brussels, as the migrant exodus bites, more Europeans are becoming EU-sceptic, so irrespective of the UK referendum, it would seem the EU project is now on borrowed time.

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Interesting that Mr President says that the UK would be back of the queue in any trade agreements with the US, in the event of Brexit. So what happened to "the special relationship"?! As Kiesinger famously said " America doesn't have friends, it has interests", at least he was honest.

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Proving what exactly?  That no one, not even so-called independent studies, can predict the future. All these global institutions failed to predict or prevent the 2008 financial crash, and arguably contributed to it, so we can take their opinion with a pinch of salt.   Perhaps if the debate concentrated on what has happened, and what is happening, we'd get sense rather than speculation and fear. :roll:                    And now we've got the Yanks, remember, the 13 colonies that wanted independence from Britain, no taxation without representation etc; came over late in two world wars to dictate the peace, and who wouldn't dream of surrendering one iota of their sovereignty; telling us, what we should do. As I've said, a rich and powerfull establishment won't let notions of sovereignty and democracy interfere with their monopoly, so all the buttons are being pressed. 

 

What a pathetic, hate filled, inward looking, sack of utter paranoid cack, love the fact that you are so rattled by the facts that you resort to this nonsense.  The President Oof the USA never told anyone what to do , he simply explained where the UK would be if they left the EU when it came to trade agreements with his country, and that was at the back of the queue.

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Back to Mr Clueless again, lots of name calling but no arguments in favour of the EU; again more trying to play the man instead of the ball.  I've already conceded how this referendum will go, thus confirming just how thick and gullible the majority are; but alas, that won't be the end of it; as "the facts" and the the nonsense that is the EU will continue and thus so will the opposition. As for Mr President, if threatening his friend and staunch ally isn't "telling us what to do", I don't know what is.    :roll:

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I've still restrained myself from reading  previous posts.

 

I'm sick of the EU, I don't care what a lame duck American President, whose achieved very little, apart from his golf handicap, has to say on a matter that has got absolutely nothing to do with the USA.

 

Vote OUT and get our country back from a bunch of unelected officials.

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Back to Mr Clueless again, lots of name calling but no arguments in favour of the EU; again more trying to play the man instead of the ball.  I've already conceded how this referendum will go, thus confirming just how thick and gullible the majority are; but alas, that won't be the end of it; as "the facts" and the the nonsense that is the EU will continue and thus so will the opposition. As for Mr President, if threatening his friend and staunch ally isn't "telling us what to do", I don't know what is.    :roll:

 

its not your turn, go to the back of the queue

 

ps.  if all the experts can't see into the future how the hell do you manage it?

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