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Gary

EU - in or out?

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Do you really, think PJ that EU countries are childish enough to repatriate contributors to their economies in a tit for tat manner. 

yes,  it is after all exactly what you are proposing you dimwit.  

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yes,  it is after all exactly what you are proposing you dimwit.  

 

Are your eyeballs bulging ? Are you tearing your hair out ? Is there steam coming out of your ears ?

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Are your eyeballs bulging ? Are you tearing your hair out ? Is there steam coming out of your ears ?

 

no , I leave that to the swivel eyed loons and their ilk.  I am calm, collected and open to sensible contributions.  These are well above your limitations but I admire your efforts to join the grown ups. 

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     Oh so much trust - that everyone's earning the minimum or living wage - what a joke. Just because the law says something doesn't make it the case; even in this EU worker's rights utopia, our own youngsters, never mind migrants, are exploited by employers, and are too frightened or ignorant to do anything about it.  Worker's rights have taken a dive under the EU, rights that were only sustained by active trade unions and UK parliamentary legislation. So I think we can ignore the Guardian propaganda. Check it out at the car wash !  :roll:  

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     Oh so much trust - that everyone's earning the minimum or living wage - what a joke. Just because the law says something doesn't make it the case; even in this EU worker's rights utopia, our own youngsters, never mind migrants, are exploited by employers, and are too frightened or ignorant to do anything about it.  Worker's rights have taken a dive under the EU, rights that were only sustained by active trade unions and UK parliamentary legislation. So I think we can ignore the Guardian propaganda. Check it out at the car wash !  :roll:  

 

complete tosh and you know it.  The country cannot legislate for law breakers and nor can the EU.  If you don't pay the  national wage you are breaking the law.  Which companies are you prepared to name and shame for not doing so Observer?  Come on, cards on the table, who is reneging on the living wage and if so , Why aren't we going after them?  Who were they again?    Are you now saying that the EU legislates against forming trade unions?  quelle tête de bouton

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No, I'm saying that you don't live in the real world; aside from zero hours contracts, where workers don't know from one day to the next what their earnings will be,  we even have cases of slavery for God's sake.  Plus of course, low paid workers, especially those with families, will be claiming benefits; remember the cases of child allowance being sent to Poland, or was that just the right wing tabloids ?   Those migrant families over here will require education, housing and health care; check it out the next time you visit a GP !    :roll:

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It must be in EU legislation that companies can advertise abroad for staff & actually make wholesale redundancies to existing staff who will be replaced immediately by foreign staff. It must also profit these companies to use this trick because they can also include redundancy packages for displaced staff. Even the term "redundancy" has been altered to suit the needs of big business.

 

The EU even made alterations to the transport act in the late 80s which allowed  HGV/PSV drivers to work longer hours, up to 15 hours a day x 3 days a week. Much safer !

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It must be in EU legislation that companies can advertise abroad for staff & actually make wholesale redundancies to existing staff who will be replaced immediately by foreign staff. It must also profit these companies to use this trick because they can also include redundancy packages for displaced staff. Even the term "redundancy" has been altered to suit the needs of big business.

 

The EU even made alterations to the transport act in the late 80s which allowed  HGV/PSV drivers to work longer hours, up to 15 hours a day x 3 days a week. Much safer !

 

How long were they allowed to drive for before legislation?  Can you find me the bit of EU legislation you refer to regarding redundancies and advertising as I can't seem to trace it?  You wouldn't be trying to blame the EU for inventing redundancies now would you?

 

Found this?

 

 

Driving hours

The main EU rules on driving hours are that you must not drive more than:

  • 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week
  • 56 hours in a week
  • 90 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks

All driving you do under EU rules must be recorded on a tachograph.

 

Breaks and rest

The main points of EU rules on breaks and rest are that you must take:

  • at least 11 hours rest every day - you can reduce this to 9 hours rest 3 times between any 2 weekly rest periods
  • an unbroken rest period of 45 hours every week - you can reduce this to 24 hours every other week
  • a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving
  • your weekly rest after 6 consecutive 24-hour periods of working, starting from the end of the last weekly rest period taken

 

Coach drivers on an international trip can take their weekly rest after 12 consecutive 24-hour periods, starting from the end of the last weekly rest period taken.

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No, I'm saying that you don't live in the real world; aside from zero hours contracts, where workers don't know from one day to the next what their earnings will be,  we even have cases of slavery for God's sake.  Plus of course, low paid workers, especially those with families, will be claiming benefits; remember the cases of child allowance being sent to Poland, or was that just the right wing tabloids ?   Those migrant families over here will require education, housing and health care; check it out the next time you visit a GP !    :roll:

I live very much in the real world, and I see EU migrant workers contributing to British companies and their success every day.  EU Migrant workers contribute to education, house building and health care,  they are putting in more than they take out.  For your information, when I needed treatment on a disc problem my amazing consultant was.........you guessed it, Polish.  My Dad was in Warrington hospital recently and a carer who took wonderful care of him was an EU immigrant, he went above and beyond for all his patients. I contract to a huge British company and at almost all of their sites I see hard working, reliable young EU migrants doing a job that is frankly quite awful but they do it well.   Are these the anecdotal observations that you wanted?

 

Even you , with all your bias and hatred can't possibly be blaming the EU for slavery?  

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Well  it is a fact of life that wholesale redundancies of British workers have taken place on a Friday to be replaced by Eastern European agency staff on a Monday, I have seen it happen first hand & agencies usually advertise for staff ,which would have been where these people lived. Drivers can still drive the same hours as previously but the available overall working day has been extended to 15 hours for 3 days of the working week.  

 

From what you are saying it seems that migrant workers are ideal for doing the jobs no one wants.

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Well  it is a fact of life that wholesale redundancies of British workers have taken place on a Friday to be replaced by Eastern European agency staff on a Monday, I have seen it happen first hand & agencies usually advertise for staff ,which would have been where these people lived. Drivers can still drive the same hours as previously but the available overall working day has been extended to 15 hours for 3 days of the working week.  

 

From what you are saying it seems that migrant workers are ideal for doing the jobs no one wants.

 

Migrants are doing jobs in every walk of life.  If what you claim to have seen is true can you provide a little more evidence than your word?  Isn't it British employment law which would be being breached if this is going on?  Are the companies British?  Are the agencies British?  Migrant workers are essential for our economy and they are net contributors to the Treasury.  

 

on the government website it states the driving hour limits as I posted above,   The only way a driver could do 15 hours driving in a day would mean he had a 9 hour break between 2 shifts they can't drive for 15 hours continuously.  I have had a read and the driving hours/rest periods seem perfectly safe to me, well as safe as driving a truck can be.  What was in place before the present regulations? .

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights

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Think the records stuck on this one, he has to believe that all migrants are net contributors to the economy, or his case and his programming falls to pieces. Wasn't the reason for the PM's futile venture into the EU, driven by the fact, among other things, that EU migrants were entitled to and claiming benefits, without any history of contributions. Now if that wasn't happening on a scale sufficient to prompt his journey, in the first place, it was indeed futile. We've got over 13,000 migrants in our prisons, I guess they must be taxing their drugs profits then !    The children of migrants and non-working mothers, won't be earning, so won't be paying tax, just consuming it.  I've no doubt that any migrant working in a profession will be contributing, but will also be consuming. As I've said before, import demand, then import supply to meet it, and you've got a never ending spiral of imported labour in the most densly populated country in Europe, such Wendy House economics are unsustainable.   And none of this economic mumbo jumbo, makes any reference to the social consequences of this naivity, to be inherited by our younger generation.   :roll:  

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If you read my post PJ i said 15 hours made up of other work not just driving (the driving limit is 9 hours a day or 10 twice a week but no more than 90 hours in 2 weeks). Did you also know that  an HGV can now be driven at 18 years old which is seven years below the trigger for national minimum wage. I'm sure ,as a business man ,you are familiar with which companies are replacing local labour with migrants, but my word is my bond so you will have to content with what i have stated. It is your choice whether you believe me.

 

It seems to me that this minimum wage has been stretched to the limit though, considering a person can vote at 18, work shifts at 18, drive HGV at 18 & die for their country at 18 but not qualify for a decent wage.

This country has gone to the dogs...successive governments have decimated our industries till there is now widespread reliance on benefit payment but ,instead of reviving the old industrial training boards to develop skills within the unemployed we are now being subjected to trying to fill any skills gaps on the cheap by using immigrants.

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The latest one Obs is that new immigrants can't claim benefits for 4 years. There would be starved bodies piled on street corners & what government would be able to ignore that ?

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. I'm sure ,as a business man ,you are familiar with which companies are replacing local labour with migrants, but my word is my bond so you will have to content with what i have stated. It is your choice whether you believe me.

 

 

 

nope, can't say that I know of any who laid off all their indigenous staff on Friday and replaced them with EU migrants on the Monday.  My having to take your word probably means you have no proof of this happening either.  

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Think the records stuck on this one, he has to believe that all migrants are net contributors to the economy, or his case and his programming falls to pieces.

Are you completely thick?  I don't have to believe that at all, I simply have the ability to read a report and understand its conclusions.  Not all individual migrants will be net contributors, and nobody has claimed that.  Overall EU migrants ( as  a whole) benefit the economy by £2 billion a year.  I hope I have made it clear enough for even a dunce like you to grasp.  If you do grasp it just stick your head in a bucket and pretend it never happened.

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:lol:  tut tut, another girlie tantrum !  :lol:    Right, so you've admitted that "not all migrants will be net contributors", so we're getting there slowly; you've also accepted that professional migrants (presumably the ones we actually need) are paying the taxes. So, if, through a points system we allow in the net contributors, it just leaves a requirement to exclude the net spongers. Unfortunately, this isn't possible within the EU, where we have the free movement rule; which is more accurately described as the free movement of people rather than labour, as having a job isn't a requirement. btw, the PM's so called concessions haven't been agreed by the EU Parliament yet, so the 4 year rule is premature.   So we're left with the issue of getting rid of the spongers, whether in our prisons, living rough on the streets, or making a living from crime, or simply not net tax-payers. So the task would be to deport them - not possible if we're in the EU. Countries like Hungary who send their Nationals here for the money; yet erect fences to "needy" migrants themselves, just wouldn't vote for it. So if we want control of the situation, we have to LEAVE the EU.  :roll:

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The Leave campaign had a stall in Warrington yesterday.... this is what they wrote on FB

 

"Huge interest today in Warrington town centre. Dozens of people came over to chat about the EU, and offering to get involved in campaigning.

We also had an informal street survey - all by passers given a ball and asked to decide which container to put it in - Leave or Remain. Take a look for yourselves in the photo what the people of Warrington want."

 

13316997_990070821114244_435030073338805

13350305_990070817780911_246947212894639

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:lol:  tut tut, another girlie tantrum !  :lol:    Right, so you've admitted that "not all migrants will be net contributors", so we're getting there slowly; you've also accepted that professional migrants (presumably the ones we actually need) are paying the taxes. So, if, through a points system we allow in the net contributors, it just leaves a requirement to exclude the net spongers. Unfortunately, this isn't possible within the EU, where we have the free movement rule; which is more accurately described as the free movement of people rather than labour, as having a job isn't a requirement. btw, the PM's so called concessions haven't been agreed by the EU Parliament yet, so the 4 year rule is premature.   So we're left with the issue of getting rid of the spongers, whether in our prisons, living rough on the streets, or making a living from crime, or simply not net tax-payers. So the task would be to deport them - not possible if we're in the EU. Countries like Hungary who send their Nationals here for the money; yet erect fences to "needy" migrants themselves, just wouldn't vote for it. So if we want control of the situation, we have to LEAVE the EU.  :roll:

 

you simply don't get it do you?  Perhaps the bucket on your head is a little too tight.

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No I don't, not having received the PC brainwashing that you clearly have. Some of us can think for ourselves, and not follow the script. Now perhaps you can get back to the topic or have you already run out of arguments ?   :roll:

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No I don't, not having received the PC brainwashing that you clearly have. Some of us can think for ourselves, and not follow the script. Now perhaps you can get back to the topic or have you already run out of arguments ?   :roll:

 

what script am I following Observer?  Are you feeling the effects of the sun?

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I see Farage, your spiritual king, is being his usual disgusting self, and this is the moron who cries foul about everything and anything that goes against him.   Project Fear at its finest, vote remain, get raped FFS.  At least the quitter self servatives had a shred of common decency and denounced the drunken failures claims.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36455766

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Well you've dived right into a script: IE: that you can't draw a comparison between a large assembly of migrants and their antics in Cologne. As if there are things that the PC handbook forbids. Sorry, it's still a free country with free speech (just); and if something said, "offends" the luvvies sensabilities, it can't be bad imo - get over it.  So if we can escape that piece of PC trivia, perhaps you might find some factual argument in defence of the EU?  :wink:

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No script, just a modicum of common decency. You should try it sometime, its liberating.  Can't be healthy spending so much time and effort hating everything???

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