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Gary

EU - in or out?

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Yes ,i understand the points system Obs, but it won't stop the migrants travelling across  Europe to camp on our door step. Their next obstacle is then to cross the channel & once they are in have we really got faith in our Border Agency to catch these people without losing them again in "the system" ? Have we even got faith in Government agencies & politicians to send these people back ? We have a long & failing history of getting rid of undesirables & if the Callands One gets his way & we are still shackled to Europe in 3 weeks time then getting rid of fugitives will be even harder.

 

how will it become harder to get rid of "fugitives" if we remain in the EU?

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Firstly, the points system is something proposed by the leavers which will probably disappear if the vote is to remain , it maybe an idea that will soon disappear anyway once the referendum is over.

Secondly, the EU appeals system is so slow & cumbersome that some of these illegal immigrants will be waiting years to get their cases heard. We don't know what will happen to the jurisdiction of the EU court if there is a vote to leave.

Thirdly, how many will just disappear into the UK black economy anyway. The government know all about us & anyone here legally because of computerised records. They won't know anything about illegal entrants without catching them entering or working.

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IF Brexit is achieved; the next phase of the operation will be to exit the ECHR and re-boot our laws to ensure no HR loopholes remain to be exploited by illegal economic migrants; so that our security agencies are empowered to immediately repatriate them as soon as they are caught. It will require substantial investment in our security agencies, to ensure adequate resources, unlike the present Gov who have cut funding to the UKBF for example.  This will no doubt have to be completed against opposition from a liberal luvvie alliance of bleeding hearts, in and outside Parliament; and will probably define the new political landscape.  This new political landscape will occur even if we stay in the EU, as it is already occurring within many EU States;  and with the continuation of the illegal migrant invasion, and EU incompetance to deal with it; the demise of the EU will probably occur in any event.   :wink:   btw: it's interesting that the Germans are now reacting to this Islamic invasion, with complaints about parallel societies being created and opposition to the introduction of Sharia Law;  perhaps they should have studied the UK before Merkel invited them in ?!    :|

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Firstly, the points system is something proposed by the leavers which will probably disappear if the vote is to remain , it maybe an idea that will soon disappear anyway once the referendum is over.

Secondly, the EU appeals system is so slow & cumbersome that some of these illegal immigrants will be waiting years to get their cases heard. We don't know what will happen to the jurisdiction of the EU court if there is a vote to leave.

Thirdly, how many will just disappear into the UK black economy anyway. The government know all about us & anyone here legally because of computerised records. They won't know anything about illegal entrants without catching them entering or working.

 

but we are presently IN the EU so staying IN the EU cannot make it harder to get rid of fugitives.  That makes no sense at all now does it?

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Well i would not be surprised, if the vote is to remain, that the UK would be pulled closer to the EU & its judicial system which could possibly hinder the removal of unwanted immigrants.

We have heard today that Mr Corbyn has come out in favour of Labour being in the in camp which seems very strange to me that he would support a movement that would sanction the undercutting of his members wages & possible displacement by foreign workers.

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The reason the migrant situation will get worse, is simply because there are more migrants en route - this is now a permanent feature of our times. IN the EU, we don't have control, as any migrant adopted by Germany as a citizen for example, is then, as an EU citizen, entitled to enter any EU country under the free movement rule.  The scam marriage ploy was one way of doing this, whereby a Latvian bride, for example, could be paid to marry an African immigrant. But OUT of the EU, doesn't immediately cure the problem, an exit from the ECHR is required and new UK laws to clarify citizenship and exclude illegal entrants.  Then of course, there would need to be a round up of all those illegals that have disappeared into the UK populace and off the Government's radar, possibly over a million to-date. It may also be worth asking just how many "asylum seekers" have been dispersed and housed by Local Authorities throughout the Country, how long their appeal cases are taking and who's paying their legal fees, and what proportion are actually being deported when their appeals finally fail.   :unsure:  

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Well i would not be surprised, if the vote is to remain, that the UK would be pulled closer to the EU & its judicial system which could possibly hinder the removal of unwanted immigrants.

 

We have heard today that Mr Corbyn has come out in favour of Labour being in the in camp which seems very strange to me that he would support a movement that would sanction the undercutting of his members wages & possible displacement by foreign workers.

 

how does being a member of the EU sanction the undercutting of his members wages?

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The reason the migrant situation will get worse, is simply because there are more migrants en route - this is now a permanent feature of our times. IN the EU, we don't have control, as any migrant adopted by Germany as a citizen for example, is then, as an EU citizen, entitled to enter any EU country under the free movement rule.  The scam marriage ploy was one way of doing this, whereby a Latvian bride, for example, could be paid to marry an African immigrant. But OUT of the EU, doesn't immediately cure the problem, an exit from the ECHR is required and new UK laws to clarify citizenship and exclude illegal entrants.  Then of course, there would need to be a round up of all those illegals that have disappeared into the UK populace and off the Government's radar, possibly over a million to-date. It may also be worth asking just how many "asylum seekers" have been dispersed and housed by Local Authorities throughout the Country, how long their appeal cases are taking and who's paying their legal fees, and what proportion are actually being deported when their appeals finally fail.   :unsure:  

why do we need to exit the EU to round up illegal immigrants?  If we weren't in the EU would they be even more illegal?  The clue is in the title and you are trying desperately to conflate the issues

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The EU is allowing itself to be flooded with migrant workers who will work for less money because it is an improvement on what they can earn in their own countries.

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We don't need to exit the EU to "round up" illegal immigrants, just to stop them getting here via illegal entry into the EU, something the EU has demonstrably failed to do. In case you haven't noticed, we still have the Italian and other Navies "rescuing" illegal migrants from unsafe craft en route to Italy from Libya; and completing their journey to Europe. To successfully pursue a policy of extricating all illegal entrants from the UK, we first need a Gov with the gonads to do it, which will require reneging on the ECHR Treaty and legislating through our own sovereign Parliament the necessary laws to do it, with the buck stopping at our own Supreme Court, which is more or less what our Home Secretary has said.. btw. As if to add insult to injury, it seems citizens of the Irish Republic living in the UK will be entitled to vote in this referendum, and their PM has been over to persuade all half a million of them to vote  Remain; another indication of just how desperate the Remain camp is.

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We don't need to exit the EU to "round up" illegal immigrants, just to stop them getting here via illegal entry into the EU, something the EU has demonstrably failed to do. In case you haven't noticed, we still have the Italian and other Navies "rescuing" illegal migrants from unsafe craft en route to Italy from Libya; and completing their journey to Europe. To successfully pursue a policy of extricating all illegal entrants from the UK, we first need a Gov with the gonads to do it, which will require reneging on the ECHR Treaty and legislating through our own sovereign Parliament the necessary laws to do it, with the buck stopping at our own Supreme Court, which is more or less what our Home Secretary has said.. btw. As if to add insult to injury, it seems citizens of the Irish Republic living in the UK will be entitled to vote in this referendum, and their PM has been over to persuade all half a million of them to vote  Remain; another indication of just how desperate the Remain camp is.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Seems virtually all world leaders are able to see what you and Boris can't.  No doubt it will be dismissed by the quitters as him having a hatred against Britain, as Obama does as he is historically part Kenyan.

 

How do you think the hundreds of thousands of British migrants to Ireland will vote :wink:

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Britain leaving the EU has no way of stopping illegal immigration into the country and you know it.  In fact, as the French have said it would probably increase as they would no longer be prepared to act as our border control.  Therefore the illegal immigration argument has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU referendum except to be used by desperate quitters who have conceded the economic arguments and have nowhere else to go.  

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Apparently, the migration from the continent to the UK is now taking place from smaller European ports & so by passing the security at Calais.

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Apparently, the migration from the continent to the UK is now taking place from smaller European ports & so by passing the security at Calais.

And obviously this would stop if we weren't in the EU???

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But would an independent ,successful  ,sovereign nation be more concious  of its borders than relying on their friends from the continent to do the policing ?

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But would an independent ,successful ,sovereign nation be more concious of its borders than relying on their friends from the continent to do the policing ?

Equally it could fare much worse.

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"Nothing to do with the EU" eh?  So Lampedusa and Lesbos aren't in the EU ?   Where the original EU policy (Dublin Convention) required Greece and Italy to detain migrants for processing asylum applications.  The ships that are now "rescuing" these migrants in the Med, and bringing them to Greece and Italy, aren't from EU nations acting under an EU mandate ?  Get real. The whole shambles supposed to have been managed by the EU; who contrary to their responsibility to protect the EU from illegal entry, have (thanks to Mutti Merkel), invited over a million illegal migrants to walk all the way to Germany and Calais, thanks to the EU Shengen Policy.. The migrant camps in Calais exist simply because the French aren't doing their job, which is the processing of any illegal entrant, to either grant asylum (in France) or deport them asap. So it's got everything to do with the EU; the unity of which has proved an illusion, when Hungary, Austria etc decided they didn't want them and put up fences, thus ditching the Shengen policy.                      As for ex-Pats, frankly not living in the UK should exempt them from voting imo, although some of these  "quitters" (having literally quit the UK) will have a vote.  You don't actually believe that foreign leaders are motivated by UK interests in interfering in this referendum do you?  They have their own interests in mind, naturally; and it's a measure of the affects on them of Brexit, not us; that they're concerned.   A large portion of Irish exports are to the UK, aside from the half million migrants; so it's no wonder they're worried. This is why the idea of increased tariffs by EU countries is just more scaremongering nonsense; as they want access to our market; shops don't charge their best customers more.  So basically, at every level, the REMAIN camp have lost the argument.      :wink:

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Apparently, as many as 6000 European criminals are in British jails, released back into British society or awaiting deportation. It doesn't say a lot for Europol intelligence & EU security that these felons have been allowed to travel throughout the EU unchecked.

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"Nothing to do with the EU" eh?  So Lampedusa and Lesbos aren't in the EU ?   Where the original EU policy (Dublin Convention) required Greece and Italy to detain migrants for processing asylum applications.  The ships that are now "rescuing" these migrants in the Med, and bringing them to Greece and Italy, aren't from EU nations acting under an EU mandate ?  Get real. The whole shambles supposed to have been managed by the EU; who contrary to their responsibility to protect the EU from illegal entry, have (thanks to Mutti Merkel), invited over a million illegal migrants to walk all the way to Germany and Calais, thanks to the EU Shengen Policy.. The migrant camps in Calais exist simply because the French aren't doing their job, which is the processing of any illegal entrant, to either grant asylum (in France) or deport them asap. So it's got everything to do with the EU; the unity of which has proved an illusion, when Hungary, Austria etc decided they didn't want them and put up fences, thus ditching the Shengen policy.                      As for ex-Pats, frankly not living in the UK should exempt them from voting imo, although some of these  "quitters" (having literally quit the UK) will have a vote.  You don't actually believe that foreign leaders are motivated by UK interests in interfering in this referendum do you?  They have their own interests in mind, naturally; and it's a measure of the affects on them of Brexit, not us; that they're concerned.   A large portion of Irish exports are to the UK, aside from the half million migrants; so it's no wonder they're worried. This is why the idea of increased tariffs by EU countries is just more scaremongering nonsense; as they want access to our market; shops don't charge their best customers more.  So basically, at every level, the REMAIN camp have lost the argument.      :wink:

 

As I said, nothing whatsoever to do with the referendum but thank you for helping prove this point.

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"  As for ex-Pats, frankly not living in the UK should exempt them from voting imo, 

 

Further proof, if any was needed, that the true value of your opinion is zilch

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Just desperation now from you; as you try to ignore facts and retreat into your luvvie dogma.  If the EU is responsible for not preventing illegal migrants from entering Europe; it is to blame for the current shambles, therefore it has everything to do with the current referendum. But no point in awaiting considered arguments, where no argument is even offered.    :lol:

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Just desperation now from you; as you try to ignore facts and retreat into your luvvie dogma.  If the EU is responsible for not preventing illegal migrants from entering Europe; it is to blame for the current shambles, therefore it has everything to do with the current referendum. But no point in awaiting considered arguments, where no argument is even offered.    :lol:

 

utter crap and you know it. b If were in or out of the EU illegal migrants would be trying to get here, it wouldn't change.  What would change would be the French authorities attitude to helping stop the poor folk trying to cross the channel.  Perhaps I can now have a guess the masterplan for after a Brexit as none of your ridiculous figureheads will share the secret.  Maybe the idea is to stop immigration, and the only way to do that effectively is to remove the draw of a successful economy to those either fleeing war and persecution or those seeking a chance in life.  Given the fact that some of the quitters seem happy to accept a huge hit to Britains financial stability to pay for their xenophobic dreams perhaps the plan is to make our country so poor that nobody will be drawn here.  Better for everybody to be skint than to share present wealth hey Observer?

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You obviously ignore my posts, in which I covered the requirements to terminate illegal immigration into the UK, and that requires deportations; no doubt against the pleas of the liberal luvvie bleeding heart HR Brigade. So providing we had a Gov with the gonads to do it; and funded adequate border security; it wouldn't matter what the French did or didn't do; ALL illegal migrants would be repatriated asap. As for the "huge hit" on the UK economy, again more speculation about an unknowable future, from a Banking Industry that caused and failed to identify the 2008 crash. So try finding some solid facts about the benefits of the EU, past or present, thus knowable; if you can find any !   :lol:

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